Ask HN: I feel incapable of learning | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: I feel incapable of learning

39 pointslethologica30 comments

I'm currently in my second year of University and I feel like I'm not actually absorbing any of the information that is being taught. I'm only just passing. I have difficulty recalling information and putting it into context. I'll hear numbers and terms and phrases and it kind of feels like they all just "bounce off" of my brain. I've tried using flash cards, creating a zettelkasten (a kind of personal wiki note taking system), I've completed the course "Learning How to Learn", I take extensive notes, I've tried improving my diet, exercising, and making sure I get enough sleep. All to no real benefit. Am I just dumb? It's really demotivating! Is there anything else that I could try? Have you experienced something similar?

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It is hard to say what is really going on, but I can tell you the best way I've found to remember things. It isn't really easy and I too fall out of the habit, but it should be a goal.

1) Read the chapter before your professor lectures on it.

2) During lecture stay engaged. Ask questions. Expand on things that you were confused about. You're there to learn. The professor is there to teach. You aren't taking up any one else's time. And HAND WRITE NOTES. Don't just copy either, explain, reword. Make it YOURS. This is much easier to do if you aren't seeing the material for the first time.

3) Before you go to bed, reread that chapter/section.

4) A week later reread it again.

5) A month later, again.

By this time it should be in your long term memory (if not before). It is extremely important to be engaged. If you aren't engaged then nothing will stick. You're telling your brain it isn't important. And if you don't have repetition then you're reinforcing this behavior. Studying is a skill, and not an easy one. I've seen a lot of dumb people get high quality degrees and be very successful. The difference is that they have to work a little harder. And don't forget that people frequently under play (and over play) how much studying they do. No one is really honest about it.

As someone who didn't need to do this in college or graduate school to do well, I witnessed the valedictorians around me as people who also probably didn't need to do it, but did it anyway.

That's why they were valedictorians, and I wasn't.

How big a difference does the sleeping after studying does for you ? And do you usually dream ?

I say this more as "review again within 24 hrs but not right after class". You need to give yourself some time for your mind to process it and store it. I'd say at least 4 hrs, but preferably before 18.

The method I put forward (not my invention) is based on the idea that you lose information over time, but each time you recall it you lose it more slowly. So if you recall it a bunch of times then by the time you lose it you'll be dead (or don't need it).

As far as what I think you're talking about, I personally have noticed an inverse effect when studying RIGHT before bed. I attribute this to me being tired and thus not engaged. I think engagement is more important than dreaming about the subject (if you are engaged, you probably will dream about it). I do dream A LOT, but I don't typically dream about things I study. Typically.

It's not enough to merely read the material, what makes it really stick is using it.

This is very true. It is part why I say "engaged" so much. But I think it depends on the material you are studying. In HOW you are engaged. In math, engaged can be doing problems and finding out what the equations mean in a meaningful way. If you're trying to memorize words, engaged can mean concentrating on the image or trying to make mnemonics.

This is completely anecdotal, however, I find I don't feel like I absorb any information unless I can apply it to something. With more mathematical topics, I need to work through problem sets. With literature/history I need to draw parallels to other events. Figuring out how to put information in context is what helps me retain information. It is a struggle because this requires a lot more time and attention than wrote memorization but as with anything there is trade offs.

Yes. I have been in the industry for a while, and went back to school at night to get my CS Bachelors, and am sometimes surprised at what these young students who want to program and work in the industry do, and what they do not do.

Classes happen at a kind of abstract level. I took a Java class, and when the semester ended I wrote a somewhat complex Java program which I wanted to make.

I had a semester where I took a graphics and also an AI class. After that semester I started my own AI/ML project which was something of a bust (once I gathered the small amount of data I needed and parsed it, the solutions were obvious without the need for ML techniques). To follow up on the graphics class I worked on a project which used OpenGL to draw things.

Also - years later I worked on a project similar to my original project which did not need AI/ML. This project had a lot of data, and did need the use of ML techniques, primarily clustering. Currently I am using mean shift clustering on the data.

Some things I have not had time for yet - I learned Common Lisp in a class, and would like to learn more about Common Lisp, Emacs Lisp and Scheme, but have not had the time for it.

Some techniques and ideas from class pop into my head when I need to solve something. I had data the usefulness of which faded over time. It occurred to me that the value of the data underwent exponential decay, and I programmed it as such. Or once I need to make a hash and I had the idea to use Gödel numbers, which I did not even know about until a math class. And so on.

Also when I need to deal with concurrency and mutual exclusion, I have weeks (months?) of class study about how critical sections and so forth work. Those are rocks many ships have crashed into (including myself, pre-class - and I still avoid it if possible).

You get a notion of how the same problem can be solved via different techniques. But maybe one uses self-balanced binary trees and one uses bogosort. You consider big O factors in programs. I have come across at least three programs that had a huge big O algorithm killing the program (although the root cause for one of them was actually mixing up signed and unsigned numbers).

If a topic in class interests me, I sometimes go beyond what I need for an A in the class. If we are studying priority scheduling, and the topic interests me, I may spend nights reading books, articles and documentation on how it works.

In summary, the answer might be to do more than class asks for. Class can be very abstract. If you feel as you do, bring the abstractness of a class into the concreteness of a real side project.

I couldn't find the quote, but there is one where Richard Feynman takes what he reads/hears and visualizes it in his head, then compares any new information to that visualization. This maybe helpful if you can't find a practical application. The mental visualization can be the application... build the thing in your head, watch the data, molecules, money, etc flow around in your visualization.

Edit: Original poster mentioned notes, flash cards, wiki... which seem like more of the same - memorization. Without more context, I really think lack of visualization could be an issue here.

Do you remember roughly where you read that Feynman quote? (Or was it a video?)

I'd be really interested to read it.

I couldn't find it because from memory I was googling 'feynman furry'. The keywords are 'feynman "grow hairs"'. From his book called "Surely You’re Joking, Mr Feynman":

"I can't understand anything in general unless I'm carrying along in my mind a specific example and watching it go. Some people think in the beginning that I'm kind of slow and I don't understand the problem, because I ask a lot of these "dumb" questions: "Is a cathode plus or minus? Is an an-ion this way, or that way?" But later, when the guy's in the middle of a bunch of equations, he'll say something and I'll say, "Wait a minute! There’s an error! That can't be right!" The guy looks at his equations, and sure enough, after a while, he finds the mistake and wonders, "How the hell did this guy, who hardly understood at the beginning, find that mistake in the mess of all these equations?" He thinks I'm following the steps mathematically, but that's not what I'm doing. I have the specific, physical example of what he's trying to analyze, and I know from instinct and experience the properties of the thing. So when the equation says it should behave so-and-so, and I know that's the wrong way around, I jump up and say, "Wait! There’s a mistake!"

Also from the same book:

"I had a scheme, which I still use today when somebody is explaining something that I'm trying to understand: I keep making up examples. For instance, the mathematicians would come in with a terrific theorem, and they're all excited. As they're telling me the conditions of the theorem, I construct something which fits all the conditions. You know, you have a set (one ball) – disjoint (two balls). Then the balls turn colors, grow hairs, or whatever, in my head as they put more conditions on. Finally they state the theorem, which is some dumb thing about the ball which isn't true for my hairy green ball thing, so I say, 'False!'"

Thanks for digging it up! :)

No you’re not Dumb.

One of the big harmful failures of mainstream education lies in its framing learning as being successful at said education. Learning as memorizing information which can be tested and measured to meet the needs of the institution. The fact that students need to be forced and threatened in order to go through the process, and that this process kills interest and intrinsic motivation don’t seem to alarm the institutions about their approach, and are accepted as a fact of life.

Similarly, academia seems to try to prepare people for ... academia.

The best advice I’ve heard about college is to focus on creating connections and lasting relationships so you end up having a lot of connections in the industry of your choice. This can be tremendously helpful in highly collaborative professions like filmmaking or software.

As for learning, I invite you to see it as a process of becoming and adapting, not as a process of memorization. Adapting to school and academia (grades, tests, reciting back information) is helpful to the institution but not necessarily for you.

Often the real learning happens on the job, in an apprenticeship context, where you adapt to the job itself. Some career paths, like medicine and law, require unusual amounts of memorization but people who are not this type of learners get weeded out early in the process.

Lastly, I recommend Sir Ken Robibson’s Ted talk on schools and creativity. An eye opener.

I want to add my voice to the chorus. NO, you are not dumb! I was very impressed with the strategies you've tried. You simply haven't identified the right solution, yet. I also applaud your bravery in asking for help and advice and am grateful you've gotten some really helpful suggestions.

So distractions, learning disorders, depression, note taking techniques have all been covered already but not interest.

Does the subject matter just bore you? Do you not know why it matters? Do you have only a vague handle on how it fits into the big picture? Does it seem like the subject 'doesn't affect anything?' Perhaps you just need to get excited about learning the subject or have a concrete application of it before you can learn it effectively. I know that subjects in physics which I love (e.g. astronomy and optics) I would just plow through and test well in, but subjects which seemed less interesting to me were a struggle. In some subjects I just needed to know why they mattered, like economics seemed totally boring and irrelevant until right around the 2008 housing crunch and then suddenly I couldn't stop reading and learning about it!

Even if one of the other problems discussed is your primary obstacle it may still help to talk with your Professors and Tutors and see why they are passionate about the subject. Ask them, why does the subject matter? How does it fit into the big picture? What are interesting applications you can inspect, measure, mess around with etc?

Some good points by others on this post. I want to focus on something more latent. Are you sure there are no other distractions in your life?

Try to find out if there is something deeper than surface level that is bothering you. Such distractions can be of any type: lack of interest in what you do (or rather, the constant desire of doing something else), homesickness, heartbreak, financial hardship, issues with family or friends, etc. If there are any such reasons, you should try addressing them first. Either solve them, or get some help in coping with factors you cannot solve.

I didn't know it in my 20s, but I was completely distracted by chasing girls to find one that I thought is perfect. Once I found my wife in my 30s, my ability to focus and learn went through the roof. Wish I had this focus when I was in school.

My suggestion is to only have 1 or 2 goals and viciously cut everything else out. I've learnt to say no to other distractions. In fact, I only have a 2nd goal around because there is waiting involved in 1st goal.

I'm extremely out of my depth and have only survived thus far using the 'Quiz and Recall' method of learning, where I take Cornell style notes of everything assigned to us and then go through my notes trying to explain (out loud, to nobody) each concept they're trying to teach us that week, such as 'give two equivalent definitions for expander graphs' and if I can't explain it without repeating myself or stumbling words I then read material and work examples until I can. I also search Google Scholar for survey papers on the subject and often just a well explained introduction will click some understanding.

At first this was a miserably slow process where after each lecture I noticed I couldn't explain anything properly and thought I was doomed but after a few weeks it gets easier. You also have access to TAs and office hours you should use them as you're paying for them.

Something else I try is active reading, as I'll just turn to autopilot through a long chapter not retaining anything and need to stop and ask questions to myself about it or try and model whatever it is in emacs using any language.

Based on the problem solving skills demonstrated in your attempt to help yourself learn better, you're definitely not dumb.

I second the note about getting tested for ADHD. Another reason could simply be performance anxiety or imposter syndrome.

Have you tried joining a study group ? If you can find a positive group of people to study with, you might feel less anxious about it.

Perhaps also consider talking to your professors. It sounds like you're trying and they always want to help.

> I'll hear numbers and terms and phrases and it kind of feels like they all just "bounce off" of my brain.

I'm not a doctor, but this sounds like ADHD. I have the condition and will barely retain anything if I don't have the treatments for it. You should seek out someone who can test you for this.

I was going to suggest the new Learning How to Learn book, but I am not sure how different it is from the online course.

One other book I would suggest is The Evelyn Wood Seven-Day Speed Reading and Learning Program.

It might be good to get a neurological checkup if your uni has a clinic that could do that or refer you out for one just to rule out anything obvious. On the practical side of things, Cal Newport (calnewport.com) has written extensively on study strategies. Unfortunately he was just a toddler by the time I was in college so I can't directly attest to whether they work but his writing on deep work did resonate well with me.

Are you taking notes digitally or on paper? Handwriting notes has been shown to improve recall.

Also, are you getting enough sleep? That can have a major impact on memory.

+1 on this. This is accurate for a couple of reasons: 1.) You simply cannot write as fast as you hear information, so you have to process it immediately, summarizing the information in your head, before you write it. 2.) Your learning modalities (aural, visual, tactile, kinesthetic) might be more visually or movement-oriented, so handwriting engages you in a different way than just hearing the information. Typing notes does not have the same benefit, since the operation is automatic. Here's a link to a related study: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614524581

One other comment: Is it possible that you have a learning disability? This is completely unrelated to intelligence--you can be VERY smart, but still have a learning disability. Some people just don't learn in the standard way. Perhaps you could consult the education professors(specifically those specializing in area of learning disabilities) to see if they'd be willing to evaluate you?

Are you interested in this information (I don't mean whether you "want" to learn; rather, is the information itself enticing)? Do you have difficulty maintaining your attention, or do you simply feel unable to commit the facts from short-term to long-term memory?

Recall whether you hurt anyone recently. Apologize asap.

Please elaborate on how this could be the cause of a mental blockage

Have you ever had any trauma to your head?

I have had a minor concussion once about a decade ago, but it wasn't really that bad.

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