Tinder founders sue parent companies Match and IAC for at least $2B
techcrunch.com
techcrunch.com
Wait, they didn't exercise their options into the sale? Did the founders hire a team of squirrels as their bankers? This is M&A 101 when switching to majority control.
EDIT: Ah, Tinder was launched as an internal project at Match. Taking options in a majority-owned entity is...odd. There is no proper way to value a majority-owned entity without discounting for the majority ownership. Issuing options for the parent would have been a better offer and better ask.
I thought it was important to point that out as that's at the core of this lawsuit. The team was given options, but it was majority owned and controlled by Hatch Labs / IAC. When IAC acquired it, they're arguing IAC should've paid more.
- Match gave Tinder founders Tinder stock options, ~20% of Tinder's total worth.
- Since Tinder is private, Tinder founders could only sell options to Match. Match would then have to pay 20% of Tinder's 'Worth' to the founders.
- The founders could only sell at specific points in time, called "scheduled puts".
- Since Tinder is private, 'Worth' is not easy to objectively determine. They have to bring in an external party, give the party information on how the company is doing, and the external party then gives an estimate of valuation.
Obviously, Match has an incentive for valuation to be as low as possible. Tinder founders have the opposite incentive. thus,
- Valuation was agreed to be supervised by Tinder, to prevent Match interfering.
So Tinder founders alledge:
- Match removed some Tinder higher-ups and replaced them with their own loyal people.
- They then had the loyal higher-ups systematically devalue the company (give pessimistic outlooks, earning forcasts, etc) right before a Scheduled put, to influence the third party into estimating as low a valuation as possible
- Once the third party estimated a value of $3 billion, they merged Tinder into match. Since Tinder didn't exist anymore, the Tinder options transformed into $3 billion's worth of Match options.
At this point, any crazy future growth in Tinder would not directly translate into crazy growth in the payout Match has to give to the Founders if the cash out.
Essentially, beforehand the founders were holding on to X billion dollars of options, set to increase proportionally to Tinder's value. After Match's 'scheming' they found themselves holding on to $3 billion of Match options, no longer set to increase proportionally to Tinder's value, but to Match's value.
The founders argue that X > 3, and Tinder's value is set to increase much more than Match in the future, that Match also knows this and cheated for that purpose.
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Extra details are included, such as the fact that Match stood behind one if it's 'infiltrated' loyalists when he was accused of sexual misconduct, just long enough for him to execute the low valuation, then had him fired with a golden parachute. The defendants claim this is further proof that there was intentional foul play at hand.
What does this mean exactly?
If you have share options and you catch wind of a buyout, exercise (buy) the shares. That’s when you have a stake in the game.
You have to remember that the company that issued the options won’t exist (in the same form) once acquired, the options become worthless. Sometimes they’ll throw you a bone but that’s usually the bare minimum of what they can get away with.
For example, a company can give you options to purchase X amount of shares at a ridiculously cheap price ( like $0.0005 per share ). Many startups do this. Sometime in the future, you can exercise the option and get X amount of shares. If you don't exercise the option, then you don't get to buy shares at the agreed at price.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2014/07/01...
https://techcrunch.com/2014/07/09/whitney-wolfe-vs-tinder/
http://valleywag.gawker.com/every-fucked-up-text-from-the-ti...
Earlier this year Match and Bumble both sued each other in the midst of an attempt from Match to acquire Bumble. I am a little lost but I think Match / Tinder sued for $450M for patent infringement and Bumble countersued for $400M for using the lawsuit to make them look less attractive to potential (non-Match) acquirers?
But I do believe they’re a shady company though.
[0] https://www.recode.net/2018/8/8/17662746/tinder-revenue-matc...
> his merry band of plaintiffs
> but sour grapes alone do not a lawsuit make
Many judges treat legal writing as a form of literature, and like to use interesting or creative language instead of just sticking to a dry boring style. I'm sure such judges would not mind some colorful language in filings as long as it helps get the point across.
A good lawyer will know if they are dealing with such a judge and write their filings appropriately.
Here are some examples of judges deviating from dry boring writing.
Noble v. Bradford Marine, Inc., 789 F. Supp. 395 (S.D. Fla. 1992) [1]. The section titles in the opinion are "Hurling Chunks", "Like a Winged Monkey Flying Out of the Ashes...", "NOT!", and "A Schwing and a Miss".
Fisher v. Lowe, 122 Mich.App. 418, 333 N.W.2d 67 [2]. A tree was hit by a car, and the owner of the tree sued. Defendants won and plaintiff appealed. The appeals court wrote this opinion:
We thought that we would never see
A suit to compensate a tree.
A suit whose claim in tort is prest
Upon a mangled tree's behest;
A tree whose battered trunk was prest
Against a Chevy's crumpled crest;
A tree that faces each new day
With bark and limb in disarray;
A tree that may forever bear
A lasting need for tender care.
Flora lovers though we three,
We must uphold the court's decree.
Affirmed
When West [3], published a copy of this case they kept to the spirit of of the judge's writing, and their summary was: A wayward Chevy struck a tree
Whose owner sued defendants three.
He sued car's owner, driver too,
And insurer for what was due
For his oak tree that now may bear
A lasting need for tender care.
The Oakland County Circuit Court, John N. O'Brien, J.,
set forth The judgment that defendants sought
And quickly an appeal was brought.
Court of Appeals, J.H. Gillis, J., Gave thought
and then had this to say:
1) There is no liability
Since No-Fault grants immunity;
2) No jurisdiction can be found
Where process service is unsound;
And thus the judgment, as it's termed,
Is due to be, and is,
Affirmed
[1] https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/7...[2] http://kevinunderhill.typepad.com/Documents/Fisher_v_Lowe.pd...
[3] a publishing company that took copies of the public domain court opinions and added notes pointing out each important legal point in the cases, labeled those points from an extensive legal subject classification they maintained, and added indexes and cross references to the other cases in the same volume and in their prior volumes. This was in an era when everything was done with paper documents, not electronic.
People who grew up with electronic documents and networks might find it quite interesting to look into how legal research worked in, say 1970. They might expect it to be cumbersome, but it was actually quite reasonable, due to metadata companies like West and Shepard's [4].
POTUS would disagree. Civility and basic courtesy are no longer popular. Such is the world we now live in.
Edit: Anyone care to dispute this? I don't agree with it, but I'm also not willing to ignore it.
"But wacky match would have you believe their lowball offer was anything but the offer of a loser! sad!"
I mean, for crying out loud...
https://www.npr.org/2018/08/13/638161148/in-presidential-twe...
C'est la vie.
It will allow those around you to have this thing called respect, which still is held dear by many.
Or, more concisely, hate the game, not the player.
I'm not perfect, far from it, but I try to fail graciously before I choose to stray from doing the right thing.
That said, I absolutely do recognize that that is a luxury that not everyone has given their situation. However, I do think that some use that to justify not having to do the right thing in cases where that isn't actually true, and that at least striving to always do right, but sometimes failing to do the right thing due to circumstances is a better approach in the long term versus minmaxing immediate returns because doing the right thing is inconvenient.
Or I'm hopelessly naive.
Or somewhere between those.
On the other hand, if it's something like "hey we're gassing the jews" or "we're bombing schoolbusses full of children," then hopefully you're doing everything you can to fight against it (though, emperically, most of us will just go along).
On Twitter and TV, he speaks the way he does to maximize attention and media coverage. He has found that evading basic courtesy is an effective way to use those media to his advantage.
In the context of a court statement or other official correspondence, I doubt you'd see him use such colorful language (indeed, check official White House correspondence signed by Trump: he doesn't).
"So and so could have been a butt-head but they weren't!"
Russian interference couldn't have tipped the balance (assuming it even did) if it hadn't been within range in the first place.
Despite everything that was known before the election, he was elected. And he delivered on the major promises to his core supporters (Supreme Court, tax cuts, hard on immigration, rolling back regulations, etc).
Uber is a great tech example of the same phenomenon. Many people on HN who rail about Uber's dubious business practices still use their services because it's convenient or because it is the cheapest. They may dislike the business but they aren't voting with their wallets. Uber "gets away" with slimy practices because "ends justify the means"
(I really think there are lots of comments that are "blatantly illiterate", in that they respond to a meaning that is just obviously not in the parent. I guess that only kind of breaks the assume good faith guideline, as they are missing the meaning rather than mischaracterizing it.)
The point of the question is whether the userbase has been trained to respond aggressively to only a subset of low signal comments.
FWIW: when you deal with the quantity of this stuff that we do, "agree with" doesn't enter into it. It's not even in the same solar system. No one could sustain the cognitive load of having to agree or disagree with that many things.
You're not their target audience.
Isn't it a bigger issue that even if people agree on the facts, the law can be mushy with concepts like "reasonable" such that two people can reasonably disagree on what is reasonable given the same facts?
Yep this is hacker news.
So without alternative argument from other legal professionals it is safe to assume that the legal professionals who crafted the statement, do so for it's effectiveness in achieving their goal, which is winning this suit and not for PR or convincing you personally.
AI, or even sentiment analysis, could easily filter non-factual posturing from statements of objective fact. Of course, people can filter it too, you never see this type of crap slip in to an academic journal.
I think if an AI auto-highlighted social-judgements it could revolutionize how a lot of things are read (a news article, HN, etc)
Moreover, the a lot of that legalese is generated directly or indirectly by the propensity of chancers with lawyers launching frivolous suits. So if I was a judge, I would be quite happy to read a nice explanation of how silly the plaintiff is being.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendulum_arbitration
I assume the bank acts as arbitrator, and IAC is one of the parties proposing a valuation? How do they remove the bank's incentive to side with IAC?
What's a FMV? F*ck My Valuation?
/joke
I think it's a for fair market value?
"The allegations in the complaint are meritless, and ____ intends to vigorously defend against them."
Responses almost always use the word "meritless" (or "baseless") and almost always describe their forthcoming response to be "vigorous".
Is there a legal reason why these responses always use the same language? Or is this like an inside joke in legal circles?
The reason this is often stated or quoted is that a defendant has to make a statement to this effect when replying to the complaint. However, at the time of the initial reply, no discovery will have occurred and therefore no evidence will be officially available to either prove or disprove the allegations. Accordingly, all you can really say at that time is "we disagree and believe the allegations in the complaint are not true and/or can't be proven."
Said position being "they" have no case and let us all be damn clear on that.
If you use this stock statement, then it won't be used against you at a later time.
More detailed link here: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/barry-dillers-iac-sue...
$IAC total revenues last quarter was approx $1B. At market valuation ~$16B. I could be very wrong, but valuing Tinder at $10B seems upper bound optimistic to me. Match probably enjoys 10x engagement.
But the reality is that online dating was starting to become more and more acceptable and normalized so that line was crossed, Tinder became a thing, and the rest is history (including most other dating apps evolving towards being clones of it)
Are you looking for the same thing on a dating site as your mother?
My question was specifically of why they were spawned from Match which was what the OP stated. They were not actually spawned from Match they were actually incubated under IACs Hatch [1].
Mars produces different chocolate bars for different markets Milky Way was a US product while Mars was an English product. Both Tinder and Match exist in the same markets.
Facebook owns multiple social networks b/c they were a threat to their business. Those are actually different products. The main differentiator between Tinder and Match is the Tinder is mobile-centric. FB did not spin up a separate start up under a different name when it launched it's mobile version did it? No because it had well-established brand awareness much like Match.
Apple also didn't produce a second company to launch the iPhone X did it? No because it had well-established brand awareness much like Match.
So yeah not so obvious.
I sometimes really love legalese.
match.com: we would like to buy tinder.
tinder: for how much?
match.com: we will offer you our stock in exchange for yours at a fair valuation.
tinder: okay!
match: alrighty accountants, round down on everything and use the methodologies that provide tinder with the lowest valuation.
tinder: not fair!
There's a similar plot in the Silicon Valley TV show (Piped Piper v.s. Hooli).
Match, Tinder and Bumble are in a weird relationship. Match tried to make an inappropriate pass atTinder, but she is not interested, so considers it as a sexual harassment. Same goes for Bumble.
This is a relationship 101. If they can't settle internally then they should leave this dating business :-)