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Comment by bitwize | Hacker News Reader

Lately we're sort of learning that absolute freedom to express any opinion you like is kind of a bad idea, especially at web scale. The example of Germany, which is freer and more democratic than the USA despite having strict laws forbidding expressing any sort of Nazi-like opinion, supports this.

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I disagree. I would rather live with the freedom to express myself, be who am I, believe what I want, speak my mind and deal with consequences of it than deal with suppression and censorship. In the US its not that we're learning this is a bad idea granted I will say it is under attack. Its more that some people can't accept that people might just be different or have different thoughts than them and would rather say its a bad idea (easy way) than to engage them in conversation or accept that we're all individuals with different thoughts and backgrounds (hard way) or that being offended shouldn't be allowed.

Germany is not freer. They do not have Freedom of speech close in terms to the US. One easy example is Section 185 of Germany's criminal code which you can be punished for insults. Section 90 is also interesting and I bet people would dislike that one if we had that currently in the US. If you see those as freeer by all means have it in Germany. I'll stick with the 1st amendment.

How is Germany more free and Democratic? Aren't they purposefully less free because of anti-Nazi laws?

Germany consistently places higher than the USA on international press freedom indices. The press, in general, is a protected institution there, whereas here, blowhards like Trump do their damnedest to intimidate journalists out of doing their job, which is to expose the dealings of government to the public.

And you don't have to read Hackernews for long to see how terminally fucked and anti-freedom the U.S. justice system is. Things like plea bargaining, money bail, and systemic racism in law enforcement and criminal proceedings make U.S. "freedom" illusory unless you're white and wealthy.

As for democracy, it's well known that votes in Congress can be easily bought in the US, far more easily than in Germany's parliament.

How is this freedom attributable in any direct way to restrictions on "hate speech"?

Well, you could argue that Germany successfully avoided renazifying in part because of its anti-hate-speech laws.

Even absent this, the point is that Germany is, in practice, freer than the USA despite having a less absolute stance on free speech.

But because of those, other groups whom the Nazis and other alt-right groups would have targeted are more free to participate in the conversation.

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