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Comment by Justsignedup | Hacker News Reader

Bargain? That's practically highway robbery (taking from the developer that is)! A developer making shitty modern react apps can make 180k a year with a bit of effort.

And I have no idea how many lotus maintainers there are left in the world. Definitely not that many.

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>A developer making shitty modern react apps can make 180k a year with a bit of effort.

Living in an area with million dollar homes and 3k rents, sure.

Unless you bought your house 10+ years ago for a third the price. So one can make shitty modern react apps for $180k a year with a $300k home you nearly paid off.

If I could go back in time 10+ years I'd be putting all my money in bitcoin and Netflix

If only $36,000 of those 180k are going to rent, that's not a bad deal.

That's sharing a studio with someone or a 1BR with 3 others. When you actually factor in costs by all metrics you're better off making high 5-figures or low 6-figures in any non-urban area than you are being anything but the top 2-5% of software developers in the Bay Area.

Rents in San Francisco are very high -- high enough, in fact, that this silly, obviously-false hyperbole is unnecessary.

So you're claiming studios are $6000 and 1BR's are $9000? You can get a 1000 sqft for < $3000 within a 1 hour commute of SOMA.

A 1 hour commute costs you 2 hours a day. That's almost like working an extra 7 weeks a year with lower productivity and increased wear and tear on you.

who's debating that?

2 hours is about how long I spend at the gym every day and I'd hate to give that time up.

If you're spending more than ~50 minutes at the gym you're doing something wrong.

What a deal!

When you can make $200k straight out of undergrad, yes, it is.

There was an article floating around earlier this week that goes into the numbers of this: https://priceonomics.com/the-places-in-america-where-all-you...

You have to add income tax to your calculations. 180k in SF is about %60 of that, which is 108k, so exactly 1/3rd.

Good, senior, full-stack devs make $90,000-125,000 in flyover states atm. And I do mean good ones. A lot of people are stuck at $80,000ish.

$180,000 for a front end tech lead is unheard of in said states. Architects make maybe $160,000.

150-160... flyover state :)

Baltimore isn't exactly in a flyover state. There's upward salary pressure from all the money shoveled into the DMV area.

hahahaha at Maryland being a flyover state now. With it hosting several of the richest counties in the entire country, and like all of the federal government and contractors that can't fit inside DC city limits.

Just because the customer is in Maryland doesn’t mean the dev has to be.

Hey I'd be happy to get $70,000 but I'm stuck having to take care of family so I have to stay in the middle of bufu egypt. Trying to find remote consulting gigs but they're hard to find!

Most companies will offer to pay for the relocation of you and your family, along with your home, from Egypt to wherever you want to move.

I don't think "most" is a fair statement.

A more accurate statement would be "Many large silicon valley companies will pay for your relocation if you are an exceptional developer for the price."

GP probably doesn't actually live in Egypt, but was probably referencing the expression "Bumfuck, Egypt", which means out in the middle of nowhere.

Nevertheless, his relo won't be paid for unless he's a God-tier, exceptionally desirable developer.

Relocation for new hires isn't rare. What are you talking about?

Contractor could make that, which is what I thought was meant by "with a bit of effort".

The PHP and Ruby developers I worked with ten years ago in DC were making that much, and the good ones were making significantly more. I haven't been involved in state-side web development since then, but I imagine that regional salaries are - significantly - higher at this point.

What do you consider a “flyover” state? From the major cities I know that are not on the west coast, New York City, or DC, $125K is around the top for a “Senior Developer” and $145K is near the top for architect level skills who don’t have any direct reports.

$125K is near the top for a Senior Developer in Charlotte, SC, circa 2014 (flyover? Probably). Probably higher there now, and definitely higher in NYC or DC.

Same thing I’m seeing in Atlanta. I haven’t seen too much of a change since 2014.

$125 seems about mid or upper mid range for Sr Devs based on data from Salary.com. Architects can make over 170K on the top end. Not sure how recent your data is but there's a real crunch for talent up here these days.

It depends on the market. Atlanta for instance is showing $130K median and 144K st the 75%. No that’s not accurate.

But it’s also showing 141K at the 50% percentile and $159K at the 75% for a Software Engineer V. That’s more accurate.

Another data point for different cities....

https://www.matrixres.com/resources/salary-survey/

>! A developer making shitty modern react apps can make 180k a year with a bit of effort.

Only in an economy that runs on monopoly money. Baltimore isn't SV.

Baltimore is in striking distance of the DC area, where salaries aren’t known for being paltry due to federal largess.

Yes there's upward pressure on pay (and the cost of everything that pay buys) from the DC area but the DMV is no SilleyValley in terms of pay and costs.

Pay, definitely not (I live within extended commute distance and have gotten offers for senior dev at $80k and similarly insulting numbers) but it's pretty up there in terms of COL.

Wow, those companies definitely are low-balling (especially for a senior position in the DC area). Were those positions ones that required a security clearance, though?

Federal workers don't get paid particularly well, actually. There's some competition among contractors especially if you have active clearance but nothing approaching SV.

Umm, I know plenty of people in the Baltimore area who are pulling in that kind of money for Rails and Django apps.

I believe you answered your own question. When there aren't many individuals left in the world with the associated expertise, and when a younger developer sees no growth potential for learning this expertise, you probably will have to pay more a la supply & demand. That said, this doesn't seem particularly high. My guess is a migration would easily cost seven figures. However, sometimes delaying the problem is really kicking the can down the road to when there are even fewer people with lotus expertise.

I see nothing in the article that suggests this is a single person's full time job.

In that case this is an even bigger steal!

> Computer & Network Consultants’s David Alonge, who is responsible for programming and maintaining all of the Police Department’s Lotus Notes applications, told The Sun that the software is “working wonderfully for the police.” He said it runs so smoothly that it isn’t necessary to bring in someone else to help manage it.

That makes me think it's even more likely not his full time job.

If it's running well, he might never have to touch it. We sell some Notes-based products with some considerable customers (still!) and only get a couple emails a week or month. Annual support and maintenance fees just keep rolling in.

There's a lot to be said about legacy systems that just work.

Or that the Baltimore Police don’t mind it running badly - given some of that department’s troubles, having the odd document vanish might be beneficial to them.

I have every confidence that they're expecting 60-70 hour weeks for that.

Are you familiar with the Baltimore Police Department's RFP and procurement processes? Because companies and governments have paid a lot more for a lot less.

Not many new ones being minted, but plenty existing ones I am sure :).

if he plays it right, he will have an easy job for life

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