2010 Nobel Prize for Peace Awarded to Liu Xiaobo | Hacker News Reader

2010 Nobel Prize for Peace Awarded to Liu Xiaobo

nobelprize.org

91 pointsrazin42 comments

> Of course, equating the Nobel committee with the Norwegian government is as wrong as equating a newspaper editor printing Islamic cartoons with it, then torching down an embassy.

This is very western way of seeing thing, which I happen to agree. The current Chinese education system has been trying very hard, and quite successfully, to mix these concepts together: country, geographic land, government, ethnic group in order to make the current political system legitimate by "natural".

Now, if you ask me what will happen to liuxiaobo, I'd bet 80%+ on that he will stay in prison. Based on my observation of the a few years after the tian'an'men massacre and the economic position China is having right now, I don't expect Chinese government to back off on this particular issue under external pressures. What'll happen is the news will soon move on to the next interesting topic and what's going on with China will continue on its path.

As a Chinese, I'm quite impressed by the fact that the Nobel committee has the gut to take the risk and stick with their own decision. I'd, humbly, call this the triumph of humanity since it values human rights and the pursue of personal freedom over pure economic considerations.

Even if the news moves on having the first Chinese citizen to win a Nobel Peace prize rotting in prison sends a strong message to the world, and to any Chinese citizens reading about their own country.

I agree as far as the current situation, but I don't think it's anything inherent about western or non-western ways of thinking, just a result of where Europe and China happen to be currently in their politics. Mixing country/land/government/ethnic-group into a "natural" whole used to be a very European idea as well, and was probably the dominant view of nation-states throughout the period of European ethnic nationalism in the 18th and 19th centuries.

I think that today it's unpopular in Europe partly because it's so associated with 20th-century fascism: no mainstream German today would want to promote the idea that the German people, the German land, the German state, and German culture are some sort of natural, unified whole, because that sort of rhetoric marks you out as a member of the far-right.

达则兼济天下，穷则独善其身。

I don't think the Nobel committee has ever given out the price without having been slammed by someone or some government. The price is political so it's no wonder. Apparently, Chinese foreign affairs has already stated that this may damage Chinese-Norwegian relations (sorry no citation). Of course, equating the Nobel committee with the Norwegian government is as wrong as equating a newspaper editor printing Islamic cartoons with it, then torching down an embassy.

here's your citation:

Chinese Foreign Ministry: The Nobel Committee awarding Liu this prize, which runs contrary to the principle of the Peace Prize, will bring damage to two-way relations.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11499931

here is the official citation

http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/chn/gxh/tyb/fyrbt/t759532.htm

Of course, equating the Nobel committee with the Norwegian government is as wrong as equating a newspaper editor printing Islamic cartoons with it, then torching down an embassy.

Strictly speaking it's as wrong as the first part, the torching-an-embassy bit is a whole new level of wrong.

Congratulations to Mr Liu - his imprisonment remains a sign of how far China has yet to travel.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/11/china-li...

Here is the statement Mr Liu made to the court when being sentenced:

I hope to be the last victim of China's endless literary inquisition, and that after this no one else will ever be jailed for their speech.

Freedom of expression is the basis of human rights, the source of humanity and the mother of truth. To block freedom of speech is to trample on human rights, to strangle humanity and to suppress the truth.

Apparently, China blacked out both CNN and BBC when the announcement was made (http://twitter.com/joCNN/status/26731788647).

I wonder what a google search would return.

google.com.hk has the prize winner listed as the third link with the terms "nobel peace prize 2010".

Google.cn still redirects to google.com.hk for searching.

http://www.google.com.hk/search?hl=zh-CN&source=hp&b...

Baidu also has search results relating to the subject:

http://www.baidu.com/s?wd=Liu+Xiaobo&n=2

It will be interesting to see whether China is going to follow through with their threat to downgrade their political relations with Norway now.

Could you elaborate? I live in Norway, but isn't known to the China-Norway political relations.

The director of the Norwegian Nobel Institute says a high-ranking Chinese official has warned him that giving the peace prize this year to a Chinese dissident would harm relations between Norway and China.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iAekET4T1D...

Norway started negotiating with China about a new trade policy in 2008. This was going well, and Norway might have been the first European country to get such a deal.

According to Norwegian newspapers, it is now a great risk that China cancels the negotiations.

Presumably Norway is one of the few countries that doesn't have to worry too much about upsetting the Chinese - they have huge amounts of money and oil and Russia in between them and the Chinese.

Having money doesn't mean that trade embargoes or tariffs won't hurt a country at the margin. The goods that are available to them to buy with that money through international trade will decline in number, which is a clear loss. You can't live on oil alone.

well, you may not be able to live on oil alone, but the oil funded norwegian sovereign fund already owns 1% of the global equity markets and are heading for 2% of the european stock markets (with the oil still being pumped out).

Moreover, an embargo is only effective if it can be enforced, there is nothing stopping chinese goods going from other european countries, they would only have a bit higher overhead.

This is not an award given by the Norwegian government. It is given by the independent Norwegian Nobel Committee. If the means anything for the chinese I don't know, but it is a huge difference with regard to the two countries political relations.

Chinese foreign policy is not always following rational paths in regard to Western standards. And this constellation is exactly why I wonder if they make their threat true or not.

As a Westerner intimately familiar with China (live and work here, Master's in Chinese), I find Chinese foreign policy exceptionally rational, if Machiavellian (for examples, I would point to their behavior towards North Korea and their currency policy).

What do you find irrational about Chinese foreign policy?

Ah, we're working on two different levels of rationality. Irrational threats ("If you walk on my lawn I will rape your dog") are nonetheless a rational policy (your lawn won't get walked upon).

Yes, an independent committee whose "five members are appointed by the Norwegian Parliament and roughly represent the political makeup of that body”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Nobel_Committee

That may be true, but they aren't speaking with the authority of the state. There is a difference.

Sure, I don’t disagree, I just wanted to provide some nuance to the word ”independent”.

When Dalai Lama received the prize in 1989, the relationship between Norway and China became ice cold for a few years. Then everything went back to normal. Presumably, that will be the turn of events this time as well.

It should be marked as the most "unpeaceful" night of Nobel Peace Prize. As to date, More than ten people in Beijing and Shanghai who voluntarily celebrated the event were taken into custody.

Two most well-known Chinese liberals share the same name -Xiaobo, what a coincidence! The other one is Wang Xiaobo, whose name is much more influencial in China.

Now you've done it! Hacker News probably just got blocked out of The Great Firewall of China[tm).

All Norwegian sites will probably blocked out too.

BTW. I live in Norway.

No, it did not.

Great.

Is the linked website real? "Photo: Wikidemia Commons" ??

This link may be more informative: http://news.google.com/news/more?ncl=dbvIvqx2eu3bnMMiDfa9ho_...

China is going to be really mad! I hope they don't harm him for this. I guess the world is watching - now, but later? And secret less noticeable stuff?

Anyone know if he agreed to accept the prize?

I don't think one spleling mistake is enough to condemn a site as fake.

It's clearly legitimate; highest rank on google for "nobel", listed on wikipedia as the official site, etc etc etc

It wasn't the spelling mistake, it was the complete lack of content. I would expect more of a writeup of why they they are giving it to him, etc, etc. The spelling mistake really caught my eye though - it just seemed unprofessional. It's just not what you expect when you hear "Nobel prize".

The peace prize is awarded by the Norwegian Nobel Committee, and not the 'normal' Nobel Institute. The official site for the peace prize is at nobelpeaceprize.org and the official announcement is at http://nobelpeaceprize.org/en_GB/announce-2010/

It's there, the UI just obscures it. It's actually an accordion and when you click "The Nobel Peace Prize 2010" tab you can see more like the "Press Release".

Regarding the typo: it happens all the time to all kinds of sites.

What do you mean lack of content? Here's the press release: http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2010/pres...

Here's the video of the announcement: http://nobelprize.org/mediaplayer/index.php?id=1373

That was pretty well hidden. You have to click on the small grey-on-grey text that says "Nobel Peace Prize 2010" then the even tinier grey-on-grey text that says "Press Release" just to see who the hell this guy is.

Go straight to the page and you see his name, his photo, and a bunch of text in Chinese (which I now see are comments).

According to Norwegian newspapers, he probably doesn't even know that he was nominated. The Nobel Institute have asked the Chinese government to tell Liu Xiaobo about the prize.

Liu Xiaobos wife says the Chinese police have allowed her to tell her husband about the prize on Saturday.

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