Comment by mittermayr | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mittermayr | Hacker News Reader

Just a quick warning — I've had a business that had the name "gram" in its title, and while it was sort of related to Instagram, Facebook has been going after domains (and 100% of all trademark registration attempts) that contain the word "gram". I had a trademark application in the final phase, with only a few days left until it became registered, when Facebook called up and basically said: shut down, or we'll sue you this afternoon and you'll have to fight this out in California. Even though they did not own the right to the word "gram" at the time, I basically caved as my financial options were limited.

For reference, they're not just going after Instagram-related businesses: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/09/instagram...

If you think this could become a big thing, either be ready for the battle and have lots of money, or rebrand now while you still can.

I know this is a hard pill to swallow, especially after you've registered the domain and everything — and it likely won't be a problem for you for a good while, but in the rare case of this hitting product hunt, or techcrunch, you may run into issues later down the road.

Hmm. Had a client a few years back with the word "face" at the start of their name. Facebook predictably sued them. I sent their counsel a response containing simply,"Suck my [expletive]" and a citation to the USTP manual on trademarks (website has changed, but the same material can now be found at https://tmep.uspto.gov/RDMS/TMEP/current#/current/TMEP-1400d...) and never heard back from them.

Cost my client about $125 in legal fees...

Well, I had a call with them (or, their law firm), and they referred me to a few ongoing cases where some startups were (rightfully so) battling them, but one of those legal battles had been going on for three years already, and the underlying message was pretty clear: Facebook has no problem lawyering anyone to death over time. I'm not in the trademark business, so I opted to move away and have a few articles written about the incident for the record. That's it.

My point was that it sounds like you lost because you didn't even try to fight them, which is what their strategy was relying on.

I can't comment on the other cases or why they were ongoing, but the only cases I know where Facebook didn't fold immediately when challenged by legal counsel were ones were the startups were actually trying to ride on Facebook's trademarked coattails and naming their product/using colors/fonts/etc similar to Facebook so as to trick consumers into thinking their product was affiliated in some way with facebook. Those are fights that Facebook won't back down on, nor should they.

"Even though they did not own the right to the word "gram" at the time, I basically caved as my financial options were limited." Great justice system in USA. The land of the ... money.

Pretty much what I told the main lawyer there — he was circling around words, and I had waited for my bombshell moment and finally said what I'd been preparing for quite a while: "but... looking at all the trademarks, I can see you guys own 'insta, instagram, facebook,' [...a few more] but... I just can't seem to find 'gram', can you refer me to a filing or registration number?" ... silence.

That moment, sitting at home in my jogging pants, I thought I'd literally just beat a tough-nut San Francisco corporate lawyer in his own game and got away with it.

After a long pause he basically said, "yes, there's nothing filed yet, but we'll get to that, it's already being prepared. Regardless, we'd have to file this issue in San Francisco this afternoon, so you'd have to come over and sort this out with our firm in court locally, over the next few months, or years."

And I said I'll call him back. And then caved in. What can you do.

This is enraging. But then again it all comes down to money in the end.

Thank you! I have unsuccessfully battled with Snap too

I haved an app (closed now) - SwapChat before they go to Russian app store( And i know about "gram" but i have this domain... So silly I just think may be go to the store with some another name.. I'm really don't know what to do with "gram"

For now, I wouldn't worry. But if you get the sense that you are gaining more users than expected, and this starts earning you any actual money, then I'd consider preparing a rebrand. Or, of course, if you're getting into investment talks — any due diligence will/should bring this up and put a stop to it until resolved. Until then, I would possibly ignore it for now (unless it's an easy move).

I feel the need to register justonegram.com.

How about snailgram?

get facegram.com — all or nothing.

instafacegrambook.com

kilogram.com or milligram.com, let them go against the metric system!

hilarious given that “Instagram” was obviously a riff off of “Instapaper”

Not sure why you have the downvotes, it's clearly very unethical & hypocritical for FB to go after all names with "gram" -- even if there's no photo related features in the app.

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