Comment by bootload | Hacker News Reader

Comment by bootload | Hacker News Reader

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"... But son, as soon as someone puts their hands on you, they've crossed a line. Fuck them up. It's the only thing these vicious freaks understand. They're wild animals. They make violence on you, you need to show them that you're the stronger, bigger animal. When someone attacks you maliciously for no reason, you need to impose your will on them. ..."

And the first girl who uses an indirect asymmetric attack? This approach will not work.

"... Teach your kid to fight back and fight smart. Protect the weak. Be hell and misery to bad people. ..."

There is a concept of proportional response and if you fail to apply it you could actually cause more damage to others and yourself. You do not want to "unleash the beast" inside. People are killed every day by someone loosing control and going too far. There are long term consequences for this type of approach. Consequences for yourself and others.

You have to decide before hand with a cool head what are your "rules of engagement?" Where do you draw the line? What is your proportional response? Is it offensive or purely defensive? Are your motives pure? Or are they to "do harm" to save face?

If you want to "fight smart" I'd advise Akido (合気道) because the core ideas are faithful to the ideals of "be good", "minimal harm" and self preservation. Akido allows you to achieve this through redirection of force and removing "ego" from the equation. You can use Akido techniques for both physical force and psychological protection.

Maybe these ideas are too subtle. But one thing I notice is the pattern of those being abused repeating the pattern of abusers. There are alternatives to break this cycle. Remember, "your actions have real consequences", short and long term. [0]

[0] Lynne Soraya, "Friends and Allies: What being bullied taught me about friendship" ~ http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/aspergers-diary/200910/f...

I agree with feral's reply: I think you have never actually tried to use Aikido in a real hand-to-hand combat situation, let alone with the intent to prevent harm. I'll tell you what will happen: you will get your ass kicked spectacularly, because actually applying those techniques in the wild is incredibly hard and it gets much harder after the first punch that connected with your nose.

If you are going the way of fighting, the advise is simple: keep the fight as short as possible, by eliminating the opponents ability to fight on the first possible occasion. In one situation, a square hit in the face may remove all their resolve to continue fighting. In another situation, you may need to do serious damage. Whatever the situation: don't dance around and do what is required to prevent yourself from getting hurt.

(Luckily I've never been in an actual fight, but I regularly insist my jiu-jitsu training partners behave like they would in a real fight for a bit, instead of cooperating with the exercise. That always puts my ability to actually fight in a humbling perspective. What I learn from that is what you will hear others say: keep it simple (complex techniques fail much more often), hurt them as soon as possible (pain distracts people immensely) and keep it short (the longer the fight takes, the more chance for you to make a mistake, for him to grab a weapon, for someone to join in, etc.). A hard punch on the nose is the best start of any fight.)

"... I think you have never actually tried to use Aikido in a real hand-to-hand combat situation ..."

Correct, do you know why?

Because I leave the "ego" at the door & understand if you have got to the a point where you have to fight you have already lost. cf: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/3497187984/

"... A hard punch on the nose is the best start of any fight ... "

I'd say ambush is the best way. This the secret about fighting - real fights don't happen by accident. They are in fact orchestrated. An ambush where the victim won't see it coming, numerically outnumbered and the odds stacked against them. You are in for a beasting, possibly killed.

But most of what we know as fighting is two people bumping into each other, registering fear in each others faces, letting the ego get involved and things escalate from there. This is avoidable and the type of situation I'm referring.

Just want you to know, I really appreciate your post and for mentioning Aikido. Of all the martial arts I know, I find it to be the most profound and wise in its philosophy.

There is also the interesting practice of Tonglen that I was recently introduced to. It is a meditation technique (endorsed and practiced by the Dalai Lama), that teaches you how to train your mind to effectively and healthily handle the issue of suffering:

http://www.naljorprisondharmaservice.org/pdf/Tonglen.htm

Profound and wise, and less than optimally effective. Its a little like the bullying problem in microcosm.

In theory, Aikido is wonderful and beautiful and the right way to solve the problem. But, fundamentally, trying to block and redirect someones attacks away from you without doing violence to either party is a much riskier strategy than striking back. Its just much harder to do right.

In practice, if you do end up in a serious fight in which your physical well-being is at risk, you want the most effective strategies, that have the lowest risk of going wrong, and that's not Aikido.

Aikido is fantastic once you've had five or ten years of serious practice to master it, and some of it's techniques border on magic. So yeah, not likely to be good for high school aged kids.

btw, Aikido is not a nice but ineffective hippy martial art, despite its reputation and philosophy. There are lots of really nasty joint locks. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wristlock#Supinating_wristlock for one example - "If performed correctly this technique will break the opponents wrist, elbow and dislocate the shoulder."

The throws can also be pretty brutal ie. throw people face/head first into the ground. Some of the comments on http://www.aikidodemonstration.com/aikido-questions-and-answ... might be worth a read.

"... In practice, if you do end up in a serious fight in which your physical well-being is at risk, you want the most effective strategies, that have the lowest risk of going wrong, and that's not Aikido. ..."

That is a weapon situation, a situation you avoid at all costs. There is only one outcome. Read my reply to @Confusion.

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