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Comment by lowpro | Hacker News Reader

I hate credit card fees as much as the next guy, but to be fair my credit card was the only way I could pay for things in Asia since I just lived there for 6 months. If I had used cash, the only ATM near me stole my friends debit card, and multiple people I know were robbed and pick-pocketed. My credit card insulated me from those risks, which I was fine paying an extra 1% for.

Now that I’m back in America the risk is far less, but what alternatives in America are there? I hope the payment apps/wallets become universal but we definitely aren’t there yet.

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Yep. The US is reasonably safe in this regard, but I’ve had credit cards skimmed a handful of times. These cases were dealt with with little more than a quick call to custom service, but had it been my debit card that was skimmed, it would’ve been bad news.

For this reason I carry only a small amount of cash (just enough for cash only bars/restaurants) and never carry my debit card. My primary payment method is credit card with an increasing percentage through Apple Pay.

Around here debit cards are protected in the same way as credit cards.

You are fully covered if you in no way have been negligent.

If the PIN code have been used you have a own risk of $173.

Have you been negligent the own risk goes up to $1255.

In very severe cases you can be made fully liable but that is very rare.

Do debit cards also issue chargebacks? That’s when you disagree with the service you’ve been provided with by a merchant and you call your credit card provider (usually a bank) and issue a chargeback, resulting in a full refund usually (they tend to side with the customer). You can’t abuse it too much but I know people who definitely abuse it for what I’d consider trivial disagreements.

As far as I know chargebacks are not misused in the same way around here.

But yes - it is available for "remote orders" with the debit card. But only for phone, mail and Internet orders. Not from a physical shop using pin code.

My personal guess is that it is tied to good consumer protection laws. We do not need to misuse chargebacks as we have other avenues of regress. You further more need to have your documentation in order when asking for the chargeback. They do do not offer blanket chargeback. You need to document your case and that the vendor is not cooperating.

Important caveat: If the receiver went bankrupt the bank cannot help you - you Will have to take it up with the executor.

My own experience is that the United States is an extremely risky place to use a credit or debit card, and it's the only place where I've ever had a credit card skimmed (from living and travelling around Europe and Brazil) - three separate times. It's also the only place where I could almost never make contactless or chip+pin payments, and had to swipe and sign.

Typical card transactions now use chip with no pin. They maybe collect a signature electronically (but I think this may be mostly to make the customer happy).

Swipe is far from dead though.

Reasonably safe is relative. My bank here in Denmark recommends blocking your VISA or MasterCard upon return from the US, or simply have them issue you a new card for use on your trip.

Same advice in America when I was visiting Denmark. It's probably good travel advice in general as thieves will target tourist destinations

Echoing the other Europeans replying, a single person getting skimmed a handful of times and you think that's safe?

For context, not one person has ever mentioned to me that their card got skimmed here in the UK in the two decades since I've been an adult. They occasionally warn of it in the newspapers, but I've never heard of an actual case of it happening.

As I understand it, most western European countries have had chip and pin for a long time before the US did. I first saw it in Holland about 25 years ago, and in the UK it's been the norm for almost 15 years.

Damn, I feel old now.

An alternative like you said is with payment apps. One example I have seen in public is with Venmo, although there are drawbacks like no fraud protection and delay in bank transfer. Latter is solved if you solely use your bank as a settlement layer and Venmo as the application layer — that is, conduct all internal transactions on the app and only settle when you need to trade with a person outside the app.

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