Ask HN: How to overcome fear of flying? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: How to overcome fear of flying?

170 pointsflyingquestion254 comments

I'm in my early 40's and have traveled a lot during my 20's and 30's. I think I was always a little bit nervous about flying, but never enough to make me really anxious.

A few years ago, on a short flight to NYC, the plane went through a sudden turbulence. It was strong enough to send 2 flight attendants to the floor. It probably lasted 10-20 seconds and, during those seconds I thought we were going to crash because I had never experienced turbulence that strong.

Since then, I started to develop fear of flying. Even though I have flown since then, each time it has made me more anxious. Now I actively avoid flying.

After some introspection, I realized that I'm more afraid of the moments preceding the crash than actually dying. This fear got worse after I had a daughter because now I also picture how the last moments would be if she was by my side on a falling plane.

Rationally, I do know how infrequent plane crashes are, and how driving is more dangerous, but at the end I convince myself that the best way to not die on a plane crash is to not get on a plane. Since flying is not required for work, and I've already seen most of the world, it's not hard to convince myself that I don't need to get on a plane.

The last few times I've flown, I used a mental trick to help me get through it. I read that the odds of a plane crash is 1 in 1.2 million, so I used a random number generator to generate a number between 1 and 1.2 million, and then tried to guess what that number was. That gave me some relief but didn't completely stop the bad thoughts.

How do I overcome my fear of flying?

View on HN

United used to have a feature called "From the Flight Deck" where you could listen to live radio communications between your pilots and air traffic control.

Unfortunately, it's now only available on a few routes and planes:

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/...

I found it very comforting to listen to it during an entire flight, because you could find out what the pilots of your flight were actually saying about turbulence and flight conditions, including their ongoing efforts to avoid turbulence purely for passenger comfort. You could also hear from other pilots who had recently flown through the same region, discussing how turbulent it was and how long it was likely to last. Among other things, this can reveal that the pilots are aware of the situation and don't consider it threatening.

Part of the scary thing about turbulence can be wondering "do the pilots realize it's so bumpy?" or "are they concerned about this?" or "what are they doing about it?". Most U.S. flights don't really make a lot of passenger announcements about these questions, but if you listen to the ATC communications, you can get real answers (usually "yes", "not at all", and "trying to get a clearance for a different altitude").

In many regions there's volunteer ground-based coverage for live ATC streams:

https://www.liveatc.net/

It's obviously more complicated to identify the particular ATC region that your flight is in (and then manually change to a different stream every time you're handed off to a different controller!), but if you buy in-flight Internet access, you might be able to listen to some of these communications from the air even if you're not on a United flight with channel 9.

The biggest challenge is that ARTCCs (the high-altitude ATC facilities) have subdivided their airspace into sectors with different frequencies.

For instance if you look at

https://www.liveatc.net/feedindex.php?type=us-artcc

you can see the Denver ARTCC (ZDV) is subdivided into more than a dozen different sectors (and there's no guarantee that this list is even complete). So if you wanted to listen to these communications this way, you'd have to take a rather active role in selecting streams and accept that your flight would probably pass through regions with no streaming coverage.

(Edit: for example you might hear "(your flight number), contact Denver center one two eight point three two five, good day" in which case you would want to switch over to the "Denver Center (Sector 14 High): 128.325" stream. If you succeed in switching in time, you should then hear your flight call "Denver, (your flight number) with you at (altitude)". But if you missed this instruction, you might have to spend an inordinately long time listening to random streams in the hope of hearing your flight's callsign, or do significant research on FlightAware to figure out what sector you might be in. Quite a chore compared to United's service...)

As a pilot myself, I loved that feature. Too bad they discontinued it, so there is no good reason for me to fly United anymore :)

Yep. I loved to listen to that communication even as a non-pilot... all the way from the ground where sometimes I could hear the discussions about trying to leave the gate (or getting a gate on arrival if we were late) and all the way in between. I use to go out of my way to fly United just because of that feature.

Probably the cheapest value add the airline had, even for the relatively few that probably cared. Oh well....

Listening to the live radio communications on a flight was eye opening. Turbulence aside, I can usually feel when the plane is moving to a new altitude (either up or down), and while I always assumed it was planned, being able to hear the process of the pilot asking for clearance to move, getting clearance, and then feeling the plane rise or fall took all of the fear out of it.

Off Topic.

Listen to the ATC feature (channel 9) on United planes was possibly used by the Sept 11 hijackers.

Sept 11 hijackers possibly ate at McDonald's. So?

You can also listen to ATC with a handheld radio.

So it is an interesting fact at least for me.

I was reading recently about the attack and the very detailed planning that went into it, especially WRT timing.

Also if you a "prepper"/security type dude, listening to ATC for situational awareness is an option.

You should still be able to do this with a cheap RTL-SDR dongle (<$20) and a laptop, though you will probably look pretty conspicuous to the flight attendants

I think there are FAA or airline rules against passengers on commercial flights using aviation radios -- and those rules might include aviation radios that you synthesize yourself.

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/8939/can-i-fly-...

(It seems that the rules are meant to avoid having unexpected devices onboard using aviation-related RF energy, rather than to prevent passengers from monitoring aircraft communications.)

A passive receiver with absolutely zero emission would allow to listen to pilots communications from the seat and would be easy to build. Listening to the tower once in air unfortunately would not be possible (as with any radio operated in seat) - an external antenna would be necessary for that. The problem with any custom built receiver is however its appearance: a strange electronic device which would probably raise alerts at any inspection, so the diy solution would hardly be doable for use in flight.

But if one can get an old analog FM radio, something can be done eaasily. The air radio band (118 to 136 MHz) is just above the FM broadcast band (76 or 88 to 108 MHz), and airliners use AM modulation rather than FM, but old consumer radio FM demodulators demodulate AM as well, so all one needs to do is retuning the radio on airband frequencies. This can be done by altering some values in the frontend and local oscillator LC stages, but sometimes is enough just to widen the oscillator coil to tune the radio a few MHz up. Nobody should object if you listen to an old FM pocket radio with headphones from your seat.

https://hooktube.com/watch?v=5kvxjNeWMxs

You'd be surprised. I thought the same when I brought 2 arduinos in a makeshift carboard box in my bag and had wires sticking out all over from the breadboard.

Not a word, nor even a wayward look.

> Nobody should object if you listen to an old FM pocket radio with headphones from your seat.

I believe the existing rules would forbid even the use of an FM radio onboard.

That would make sense since a traditional FM radio local oscillator does indeed emit radio frequency, but the level would be really low to be able to jam any of the airplane devices.

Microsoft’s Channel9 was named after this (United Channel 9), and had the same intention: to be an unvarnished look behind the scenes.

https://channel9.msdn.com/About

It'd be interesting to see a service that automated this process for you. Ie if you select your flight it displays a list of ATC streams for each airspace you pass through and allows you to easily switch between said streams.

Last time I listened to that it was a panicked pilot asking Miami Center for a new heading because they were sending us through a thunderstorm. Not really comforting.

Hm, now I'm pretty sad that their site only works with Flash.. Can't even install that on Chrome anymore.

It doesn't require Flash. Every stream has a link like

https://www.liveatc.net/play/kfwa1_zau.pls

which in turn links to a resource like

http://d.liveatc.net/kfwa1_zau

which you can play in lots of tools (two examples are mpg123 and mplayer).

I had a fear of flying, which I overcame completely by accident: I started playing a realistic flight sim for a while. Because it was realistic, I had to learn the basics of how to actually fly a plane.

It taught me two things: what some of the noises, the vibrations, and the movements were; and how hard it is to actually crash a plane. Once you made it in the air, you'll want to try crashing your plane in the game (explosions! fun!), and it will be undoubtedly harder than you imagine.

I now have zero fear of flying. Before playing the sim, I knew rationally what you're also pointing out - that flying is extremely safe, yet I was still afraid. But after playing the sim, I actually believed it.

It's been probably 10 years since I played the simulator, but the effects last.

I had a somewhat similar experience. I had a long-haul flight on Singapore, and the entertainment system had a bunch of videos on the basics of the aircraft and how it flies. This included a few videos on what causes turbulence, how the plane and pilots handle it, and how it’s not particularly dangerous. Now instead of just telling myself that the odds are in our favor when I’m on a turbulent flight, I can think back to the concepts in those videos and rationalize to myself what’s happening and why it’ll be fine. Understanding what you’re experiencing is really helpful.

That's neat! A popular online resource about these topics is http://www.askthepilot.com/questionanswers/turbulence/ (which also links to a number of other references).

what was the name of the simulator?

I'm not the person you're replying to, but I've had loads of fun with FlightGear. Its free & open source. The selection of aircraft and some of the graphics are not as nice as the alternatives, but I've heard the realism is hard to beat.

http://home.flightgear.org/

Thank you :)

X-plane is an excellent choice. It has a pretty generous demo and also works on Linux.

Nice! Thanks.

This is similar to my experiences with getting blood drawn. About two-weeks prior to the draw I would watch a couple of videos on YouTube of blood draws each night. By the time the day came, I was still anxious but fine.

I've been told that the anxiety was created by my nearly passing out when getting blood drawn but the mechanism for nearly passing out is different from panic or anxiety. Still, my "exposure therapy" worked. The last time I had my blood drawn I watch a couple of videos the night before but probably didn't even need to.

OK, so I just saw Tom Cruise and James Corden jump out of a plane. Before I saw Will Smith do it. It looks like so much fun, but its so scary.

I wonder if the visualization aspect of jumping out of a plan would also help my nerves. Maybe set a date and then watch YT videos for a few minutes a day on tandem jumping.

That is, in fact, a facet of ACT. Do things to expose yourself to tiny amounts of fear an anxiety, then progressively increasing that exposure that until you either don't feel them or don't perceive them as bad.

Put another way; you become comfortable with being uncomfortable. Believe it or not, you can actually enjoy those feelings.

I remember watching an episode of MTV's True Life where they profiled people with OCD.

For 2 out of the 3 people profiled, the OCD stemmed from a fear of something bad happening and that was their way to cope. For one specifically, her mother had a surgery gone wrong and almost died.

The therapy was to have a mock funeral for her mother, go to the hospital and watch her mother have blood drawn and essentially go through all of the motions of having her mother die so that she could process it.

By the end of the treatment (which seemed to be a little ad for only a few weeks) her symptoms were drastically reduced.

Any recommendation for a flight sim? Always been interested, I think we owned a copy of the MS flight sim back in the 90s, never played as an adult.

The civilian flight sim market is a bit thin these days unfortunately. X-Plane is quite good and gets a lot of developer support. It also runs on Linux!

Flight Simulator X is more than a decade old but it's still decent and has an unbelievably large third party library of aircraft, scenery, and other add-ons. The Lockheed Martin developed Prepar3d is an attempt to update the FSX code base and by all accounts is quite good but i haven't tried it myself.

A proper flight sim isn't much fun without at least a stick and it's worth buying one even if it's cheap and doesn't have a throttle.

Prepar3d has really come a long way, and IMO is the best of the bunch these days. Starting with v4 it's even a proper multi-threaded 64bit application which solves a _lot_ of issues (Run ALL the addons...)

I had a similar experience. I used to get somewhat anxious about flying because I'd had a bad experience in a Cessna 152 when I was a teenager. I overcame that in my late 20s by playing a lot of MS Flight Simulator, and then actually going out and getting my pilot's license.

My first demo flight in a real plane, the flight instructor told me to do the takeoff. My hand was literally shaking as I advanced the throttle (this was in a Piper Cherokee). I don't think I even got us to full power, but it was enough for us to take off. Then we just buzzed around the Santa Cruz mountains (in the Silicon Valley) and I was pretty hooked after that. I don't even get fazed by big jolts on turbulence any more.

We're building a VR simulation of flying specifically for the purpose of overcoming fear of flying. It uses some of the same principles you mention:

-Repeated exposure to a realistic flying experience (in our case, it goes gradually since it's designed for people with a fear)

-Specifically learning about some of the different noises planes make

-Getting exposure to the vibrations, noises, turbulence, etc that you'll encounter on a real flight

And on top of that, we teach various techniques for overcoming the fear, give new logical/rational approaches to reinforce how safe flying is, understanding the underlying anxieties and emotions involved in fear of flying, etc.

But we don't teach you how to fly! That would be a very neat addition.

The company is called Fearless. I put up a little Fearless for Flying survey here for anyone interested: https://goo.gl/forms/11dINvQlgSnvOaQE2

I've been thinking about the huge potential of VR to help overcome the fear of flying for years, no joke. Glad to see someone has taken up the task! Good luck to you!

Thanks eblanshey. Let me know if you have any ideas about it!

I think that, if properly executed, you could definitely get huge traction with proper marketing and I have some ideas there. You can integrate and partner with airlines, selling fear-specific software via app stores, etc.

Another major marketing platform is becoming a sponsor of height-based sports, such as rock-climbing and paragliding competitions, or their respective national organizations (such as USHPA).

Hell, some organizations like USHPA may even want to partner with you instead of necessarily you becoming a sponsor. A lot of these organizations could bolster their memberships using new methods of outreach with your help. USHPA is one of the many organizations that I can think of that has a hard time getting peoples' new interest because people think of hang gliding and paragliding as "crazy". Most people, when asked why they don't want to do it, have fear of flight or heights as the main reason.

In short, look to the industries that would benefit from people overcoming their fears. Partner with them, sponsor them, whatever. Create outreach material with them, such as brochures or videos about their sport or niche, and have a plug for your software. Offer a free x-month subscription to your VR app with all new organization memberships. Or do it the other way around: getting a subscription or purchase to your VR app automatically gets you X% discount with partnered trainers in multiple sports: paragliding, hang gliding, sky-diving, GA, etc. Have partnerships with trainers where you send referrals to each other. Use marketing terms like "Always wanted to try X but were always too afraid? Start living life!" I could see that being a successful Facebook or Instagram ad.

I just recalled I wrote an article[0] about my vision of the future in which I mentioned using VR for overcoming fears. If you ever want to chat feel free to reach out to me via the contact details there. Good luck!

[0] https://medium.com/@eblanshey/the-world-is-undergoing-massiv...

Please, please, please, please complete this project. Like the OP, I have an ever increasing, ever debilitating, downright crippling fear of flying. It's only getting worse as I get older, and I'm already missing out on opportunities because of it.

I have an Oculus Rift, and would happily pay for such a simulator.

Thank you rubicon33. Did you fill out the survey linked above? If so I'll let you know when it's ready.

I like the GP's point that you should also show how hard it is to crash the plane. Otherwise, people won't really have an idea of the margin of "weird noise" they have before getting to an actually threatening situation.

Where can I learn more about you/your company? I'm a school administrator but also a private pilot with a background in digital learning design and a huge flight sim geek -- HTC Vive Pro, P3D, and the whole lot. Super interested in this space. Would love to know how I can learn more.

Thank you! You can reach out tim at fearlessvr.com

please make it in VR I will buy it for my mother I promise

Getting used to the normal phases (and sounds) of flight was the biggest thing for me. For instance, once I realized it was normal to bank for a turn shortly after take off (and that the sensation was not us falling out of the sky) I stopped freaking out internally about it.

> It taught me two things: what some of the noises, the vibrations, and the movements were; and how hard it is to actually crash a plane. Once you made it in the air, you'll want to try crashing your plane in the game (explosions! fun!), and it will be undoubtedly harder than you imagine.

It's a good thing you didn't try flying a virtual helicopter then, those things are deathtraps. I have some experience flying the KA-50 "Black Shark" in DCS and before you get a feel for it is very easy to make your rotors bump into one another and break (mostly due to its weird double rotor), get in a vortex ring state, or simply bump into stuff horizontally while landing.

Crashing is still fun, it just waaaay easier than with a plane. At least the board computer will whisper sweet nothings to you after you've lost most of your rotors and are once again falling like a brick... "watch EKRAN".

Also, landing on an aircraft carrier, flying the space shuttle, and piloting the SR71 are pretty dangerous. All of which have nothing to do with OP's flight anxiety.

You know what they say, planes stay in the air through lift generated by physics; helicopters stay in the air because they're so ugly the earth repels them. I'm OK with flying in fixed-wing craft, but you wouldn't be able to get me into a helicopter.

Similarly, you could also read about the physics of flight. I've been reading "Understanding Flight" (http://a.co/dSqr2dS) and enjoying it.

Imagine I asked you "Here's a 100 kg object, and it can produce 10 kg of thrust. Can it fly?" It seems miraculous that the answer is yes. I had always known this, but thinking about it anew was amazing to me.

Unobfuscated URL: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002Q69B9M/

Yeah. I got my link from the Amazon "share" button. Apparently "a.co" is Amazon, but it does look obfuscated doesn't it?

I think this is a common thing in therapy against fears;

the fear will decrease once the thing you are afraid of becomes more clear/detailed (as opposed to vague.)

Like in all thriller/horror movies, the less you see of the "scary creature" (in a dark place, behind other objects blocking your view, etc.) , the more your imagination will process the scary thoughts and amplify things.

Side point, there is a book Hagakure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagakure) which is collected comments of a samurai during the end of this samurai/retainer period for Japan. This passage stuck with me and talks about overcoming fear of death through meditating about dying in all sorts of horrible ways. I guess you did the 21st century version;

"The Way of the Samurai is found in death. Meditation on inevitable death should be performed daily. Every day, when one’s body and mind are at peace, one should meditate upon being ripped apart by arrows, rifles, spears, and swords, being carried away by surging waves, being thrown into the midst of a great fire, being struck by lightning, being shaken to death by a great earthquake, falling from thousand-foot cliffs, dying of disease or committing seppuku at the death of one’s master. And every day, without fail, one should consider himself as dead. This is the substance of the Way of the Samurai."

I don’t remember the official name for it, but one common technique to overcome all sorts of fears is to progressively visualize the experience.

For your flying example, that might mean to sit and think about just packing for a trip. How does that make you feel?

Then think about driving to the airport. How does that feel?

Then think about boarding the airplane.

Then think about flying calmly.

Finally, think about really rough turbulence.

The idea is to think about each step several times (over many weeks/months) until you are progressively more and more comfortable with the entire process. Often, anxiety about a specific event (turbulent flying) will start well before you experience the turbulence - so by progressively visualizing each step in the process, your mind will begin to better control your body over the entire experience.

This process works for all types of fears: spiders, bridges, going underwater, etc.

However! I’m not a professional - so if it is really bad, then I would recommend going to a therapist - even for just a few sessions - and they can better walk you through the process. Search for “CBT in [your area]” if you don’t know where to start.

Also - if you can’t get over it with just mental exercises, and you really need to fly somewhere - a doctor can prescribe medication that will relax you for the flight (though there are potential side effects - including addiction - so talk that over with your doctor).

Yes totally this! It's called exposure therapy and apparently has good therapeutic outcomes for specific phobias.

Great comment!

big second on cognitive behavioral therapy. it helped me so much with overcoming similar phobias.

Yes, CBT is probably the best therapy for this kind of thing - in fact, phobia of flying is THE case study (very much their version of the todo-app :) ).

Psychiatrist here, and long-time fearful flyer who benefited tremendously from CBT. Really impressed by the range of strategies expressed in this thread; I wanted to mention a few things:

1. No one solution will work for everyone, but it's always possible to find something that will help. CBT and its cousins work very well but aren't accessible to everyone (still waiting for a /good/ solution to that, HN) - in those cases I'd encourage people to try some of the distraction and visualization methods, and some of the exposure strategies, described in the comments. (I also like the lottery ticket strategy, it's a great reminder of the odds...)

2. After reading suggestions like these, and even books describing how to /do/ CBT with people afraid of flying, I wasn't better. I knew the right things to say to myself but didn't really believe them. I reluctantly did CBT, and to my great surprise it helped. My experience was that a CBT therapist was very much like a trainer at the gym: I know what to do at the gym, but having someone coach me through it made all the difference.

3. One cognitive strategy that has been helpful to me, in addition to many of the others already noted: force yourself to think, on any given day, about how many flights got where they were going, or at least got somewhere, safely. The answer is all of them. Yes, some were diverted, or returned to the airport - but they all landed. Now, remember that this happens every day - on days with huge storms in the midwest, tornadoes, snowstorms in New England, hail in Florida. For a visual illustration, check out a site like flightaware, and consider just how many commercial planes are in the air at any given time.

Hi Cassowary37, I'm working on a CBT application, I would love to get your feedback on it if you have a few minutes. Would be happy to buy you a coffee via the starbucks website :)

CBT helped me a lot and I would love to be able to share it with others.

My email is johnCbogil@gmail.com

I randomly jumped into this post and do not have the context or the experience to know what CBT stands for. What is it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy

Cognitive behavioral therapy!

I also had a fear of flying, one that lasted 3 years. It came on because of 3 terrible flights in a row. It was bad to the point where I could not even think about stepping on a plane.

I ended up missing weddings and job opportunities because the fear of flying was so intense.

I now fly regularly, and without issue. It took a long time, but I've found a few things that worked for me:

1. No caffeine on a flight day. This helps for any anxiety that may start to build for me.

2. Noise cancelling head phones w/ ear plugs. A lot of my anxiety came from paying attention to the sound of engines. Was something odd happening? Keeping the sound of the engine drowned out helped keep my mind off the mechanics of the airplane.

3. Neck pillow / comfortable clothing. Being warm and comfortable lets me fall asleep, completely avoiding any anxiety that may have otherwise come.

4. Timing flights to avoid common storm times. I'm in Florida, and the afternoon thunderstorms can be extreme. If I can, I try to fly out early in the morning, or late at night when the storms tend to not occur.

> 1. No caffeine on a flight day. This helps for any anxiety that may start to build for me.

This was a big one for me. I'd also add a 1(b): no alcohol the night before. I'm ok having a glass of wine or something while on a flight, but drinking the night before definitely has the same anxiety-inducing affect that caffeine the morning of has for me.

> A lot of my anxiety came from paying attention to the sound of engines. Was something odd happening? Keeping the sound of the engine drowned out helped keep my mind off the mechanics of the airplane.

I went of my first flight recently, that was the bit that really stood out to me - a little before landing the engines sounded like they powered down to nothing. I had an (internal) freak out, while I watched everyone else continue on like nothing happened. After we landed safely I learned that same lesson - don't listen to the engine. Someone else is driving, and listening won't help.

This should actually be reassuring to you, if anything! Planes can maintain altitude, fly long distances, and land safely even in the event of both engines failing or blowing up. Also, when you hear them power down near landing time, they're still actually running and providing power, but are no longer providing thrust.

Miracle on the Hudson?

Gimli Glider more like.

Substituting the caffeine with some alcohol before and during the flight works wonders for me.

Strongly agree with all of these, especially no caffeine before or during a flight.

In addition a couple strong cocktails right before the flight goes a long way to help me relax during take off. That's when I tend to be the most anxious.

Also getting a couple big bottles of water at the airport and bringing them on the plane helps me stay hydrated/comfortable and forces me to stand up and stretch in order to get to the restroom a few times during the flight.

There's better advice here than thinking about the odds of a crash, but if that helps, you could also factor in the odds of actually dying in a crash - not just being in one - because that's even rarer.

I was on a plane that experienced an "uncontained, catastrophic turbine engine failure" (Delta 1288) that killed two people a few rows behind me. It was traumatic, and I rented a car and drove home instead of flying, but it wasn't long before I was regularly flying again. Physically, I was completely unharmed, and I got to experience safely leaving a plane through an over-the-wing exit. I learned that even in a worst-case scenario, people can and do survive.

That must have been terrifying. Can you talk more about what happened between the moment the engine failed and the plane landed safely? How long did it take? Did the captain communicate with passengers frequently? How about flight attendants? What went through your mind? I'm nervous about flying and knowing what happens in this scenario may help me prepare.

There's a show called 'Air Disasters' that you might be interested in, answers your questions for other flights.

FYI the show goes by a few different names depending on the region:

Mayday (Air Crash Investigation/Air Emergency/Air Disasters)

Very addictive show (if you like learning about how planes crash)!

It looks like the plane never left the runway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines_Flight_1288

The plane didn't leave the ground - the engine blew up as we were accelerating for takeoff. That's now something I now find reassuring: takeoff seems to be a time of maximum stress on the engines - if they're going to break (or explode), hopefully it will be before the plane leaves the ground!

This was 20+ years ago now, but I remember being awed by the performance of the pilots and flight attendants. The plane braked hard right after the explosion, so the pilots clearly noticed it and took immediate action, even though I heard later that people in first class were so far away they didn't initially know why takeoff was aborted. In the moments that followed, one pilot was giving first aid and I saw him run down the aisle - blood on his hands and shirt - to get more help and medical supplies. Yet he was calm and professional throughout.

Some people yelled to "stay calm" or "don't panic", and people listened. Announcements were clear when there was no further danger and how we were to exit.

We were kind of dumped in the terminal at the end of it all, though. I remember an announcement that there were no additional flights that day, so we couldn't get rescheduled until tomorrow. Seriously? There were ambulances, news vans, and Red Cross vans at the terminal almost immediately. The airport was clearly completely closed down - I don't know for how long. And no baggage claim, of course: it took about a week to get our luggage back.

In the weeks that followed, the FAA sent a questionnaire that was extremely detailed. They wanted essays about every aspect of the flight and it took a long time to complete.

A couple of years later, I was on a cruise and met a young pilot who'd just got his first job with an airline. I mentioned this experience, and he said, "No kidding! We totally studied that accident in school!" I find that very reassuring... aviation seems to learn from mistakes and experience better than any industry I've worked in.

>takeoff seems to be a time of maximum stress on the engines

This is true, 'band A' throttle is used for takeoff and the first minutes of flight. Perhaps a pilot could chime in here, but I don't think there's any other non-emergency situation that band A would be used in flight.

It's also why jet engines are overhauled on a takeoff schedule. ie some parts have a lifetime of 20,000 cycles (takeoffs/aborted landings)

Interestingly, that same aircraft you were on 22 years ago is still in service today...

That plane probably has had tens of thousands of flights since then without any incidents.

Personally, when I fear things (like every time I fly) I have this very simple mechanic for dealing with it: welcome what's coming.

In the case of flying, I accept that these could very well be the last moments of my life and it's too late to get off/turn back now and I'll be damned if I'm going to sit there and spend my final moments suffering and wincing in fear. I relax my body, take a deep breath and try to suck in every bit of life within me - I enjoy myself and everything around me in the moments before (in my head) the plane crumples into a smouldering wreck. Hell, what an experience - to die! You only get to do that once. Twice if you're lucky! You might as well embrace it with open arms! I turn my excitement into curiosity. I rationalise that I'm here now, and I've trusted this pilot with my life, and if it was a mistake, so be it. What will be, will be. Que sera, sera!

Once I put myself in this mindset everything becomes a breeze.

I have found the same mindset to be comforting for me on planes. I am able to let go of control, because to be honest, I wouldn't be able to stop the plane from crashing even if there was a real danger.

Better not to worry about something I have no chance of controlling.

I have the same philosophy. This is what let me get past my fear of flying. However, I now have a lifelong fear of driving, for the same reason.

> Twice if you're lucky!

How does a person die twice?

>The last few times I've flown, I used a mental trick to help me get through it. I read that the odds of a plane crash is 1 in 1.2 million, so I used a random number generator to generate a number between 1 and 1.2 million, and then tried to guess what that number was. That gave me some relief but didn't completely stop the bad thoughts.

This type of probabilistic thinking, combined with the acceptance of the lack of control I have over the plane's destiny, tends to be more than sufficient for me. Even if the plane hits turbulence, I know that trained professionals are in control of the situation, and that there is literally nothing I can do to help the situation at that point.

I've found that accepting your own lack of control over a situation is instrumental in confronting all sorts of anxieties. There is nothing I can do, therefore I sit back and relax while enjoying the novelty of the current event.

Learn to meditate and make a commitment to stop avoiding flying if you actually need to fly somewhere. Avoidance just feeds the anxiety. Try to remind yourself of the positives of flying - you can travel far distances in a short period of time and enjoy more time at your destination than you might have otherwise if you took some slower mode of transportation.

Also, I always remind myself that the higher up the plane is from the ground, the longer the pilot has to correct things or come up with a plan to land safely if something does end up happening. This won't help with anxiety about takeoffs and landings, but it may help for the large majority of the flight spent cruising at high altitude.

There's a reason alcohol is so generously consumed in airplanes and airports. Obviously you don't want to show up at a rental car counter or business meeting stinking drunk, but it's amazing what just one drink can do for your nerves.

For dealing with turbulence, I gain an amazing amount of comfort by holding onto something rigid- the armrest, the tray table, or if all else fails the front of the seat between the legs. The higher brain functions know better, but this seems to soothe the beast within.

First of all my sympathy and thanks for your honesty. There are some very good tips from others here but if numbers mean anything to you (and I really appreciate that they might not in this case) then here are some:

- In the US: In April 18th this year a passenger was killed on a Southwest Airlines 1380. This was the first fatality on major US airlines for 16 years (since American 587). In that period those US airlines carried 10bn passengers on 146m flights without fatality. In that period there were 645,000 road deaths in the US.

- World wide: If you took 2 flights every day statistically it would be about 10,000 years before you were involved in a fatal aircraft accident. You would have ~65% chance of surviving that accident. I note that in the last five years 12 commercial aircraft were totally destroyed with no fatalities or serious injuries.

It might be worth dropping your question into a professional pilots forum, here is one that I believe would respond positively:

https://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight-6...

FWIW I have felt fear in an aircraft, and a very good friend of mine was killed on a commercial flight (but not an accident). I still fly (nervously) so it can be done! Anxiousness about flying is far more widespread than most admit to so you are in good company.

Sources: Various including the annual Boeing statsum of aircraft accidents 1959-2016.

I used to be so afraid of flying that I would cry and hold strangers hands on planes without any prompting. It was out of control. It started really slowly though. I was able to fly when I was younger, but nervousness started to take over and eventually, like you, a bout of turbulence made me even more anxious.

I told my doctor about my week long anxiety before flying and how I would cry on strangers randomly throughout a flight convinced they were the last person I would ever meet. He prescribed Xanax and suggested therapy. The drugs helped me keep to myself, but what helped the most was watching planes take off and land at SFO.

I was flying to SFO for work and staying at a hotel nearby, so I would sit and watch planes take off and land. Every time I heard the engines speed up for take off, I would get nervous (and feel myself getting nervous writing this), but after a while, it got to where I could distract myself from the fear when on the plane.

When I wasn't in SFO, I would listen to air traffic control (smooth calming pilot voices!) on my ham radio as prep for an upcoming flight.

Also therapy is amazing for helping me work through various other anxieties.

Good luck! Its not impossible and you are on the right track through looking into statistics and trying to give yourself something concrete and rational to think about.

I overcame my fear of flying by accepting that if it's my time, it's my time. I too am in my early 40s and I feel I have lived a decent life. Unlike you however, I haven't traveled much, and it became more of a priority for me to face this fear.

On a side note, the best way to overcome any fear is to face it, repeatedly. In my fight with flying fear, I forced myself to fly often and longer and longer distances. Secondly, you need to stop negative thoughts in their tracks. Fear is exacerbated by an endless stream of "what if" thoughts that can spiral out of control. I learned to practice mindfulness and stop these thoughts. It takes practice and patience, but you'll find how free you can be from fear when you learn to reject these thoughts.

> I read that the odds of a plane crash is 1 in 1.2 million,

That's a very misleading figure. In 2017 there were zero (read: 0) accident deaths on a commercial passenger jet. That a Turkish cargo jet smashed into a village in Kyrgyzstan doesn't affect me in the slightest.

Flying on a jet in the USA had a zero accident death record for over a decade. In this millenium, not counting 9/11, American Airlines Flight 587 in November 12, 2001 and Comair Flight 5191 on August 27, 2006 were the only deaths involving a jet. Three more involving turboprops. That's it. In 2019 February we will celebrate the tenth anniversary of the last one. No matter what happens to the plane they land them. It's quite amazing how bad shape some of them are but yet land in one piece.

While I'd agree that the likelihood is incredibly small, the second paragraph of your comment is incorrect. SWA 1380 happened just ~3 months ago and caused 1 fatality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines_Flight_1380

There was also Asiana 214 in 2013, which caused 3 fatalities when landing in SF.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214

Aside from those, it also seems disingenuous to exclude turboprops. 49 more deaths happened in America on turboprops during this millennium. That's not an insignificant number.

SWA 1380 I acknowledge of omitting but Asiana 214 is not an US airline.

I said there were only three deadly accidents involving a turboprop -- although I admit not remembering the exact counts for each or are you saying there were more than three?

Your comment says "flying on a jet in the USA". The Asiana accident was on a jet, and was in the USA, regardless of if it was a US based airline or not.

Regarding turboprops, your comment seems to be dismissive of those accidents as if they were not as important or relevant, which I disagree with.

My wife is afraid of flying and uses an app called SkyGuru (I think). It uses your phone's accelerometer to measure turbulence and let you know the plane isn't likely reaching its structural limits and I think it also uses a timer to guess when certain sounds will be heard (landing gear retracting, flaps going up, the ding when the plane reaches 10k feet). She said that it has helped

If you're near LA, there's "Air Hollywood".[1] They're a prop house for the film industry, with full sized aircraft cabins and mockups. They have a a "Fearless Flight" program, where you go through the whole drill of flying, with a 2-hour "flight" in a cabin on the ground, with sound and effects. Anxiety counselors and a real airline pilot are on duty.

For an extra $150, you can take a short real flight and return.

[1] http://airhollywood.com/events/fearlessflight/

No one else has mentioned this, but have you considered upgrading your class of service to premium economy or business (if possible)? I find that my baseline anxiety is far higher after dealing with boarding procedures, jockeying for overhead space, and cramming into a tiny middle seat with my knees touching the seat in front of me than when coddled in first class. The entire pre-flight experience/lack of personal space is (for me) so anxiety provoking that calming myself down for the flight is difficult. It's an expensive fix, but maybe worth exploring if you're flying infrequently. Also worth noting that I'm a 6'2", 220lb person, so YMMV regarding necessary personal space.

I also had the luck with learning about flight dynamics, airplanes, and how most unpleasant sensations during flight are well within operational parameters for an aircraft.

Tricks I use:

1. Think about how many takeoffs and landings happen every minute around the world, and how little you hear about plane crashes. Similar to your random trick.

2. Investigate all plane crashes in the last 20 years and understand if they can happen again today.

3. Understand that everything on a plane has a backup. EVERYTHING.

4. Understand that you WILL die from other things at a 99.999% probability and that you should spend your CPU cycles avoiding them instead. More people died of sickness caused from flights than from actually flying.

5. Understand that turbulence is COMPLETELY natural and has nothing to do with crashing. It is almost impossible to crash from turbulence. (see here: https://www.quora.com/Are-there-any-plane-crashes-due-to-tur...). You are more likely to crash from turbulence due to pilot error who doesn't know what to do in the case of turbulence, compared to the turbulence itself causing the crash.

6. Choose the best airlines, those that you know they will do whatever they can to increase maintenance of airplane parts (which can incur material fatigue over time).

7. Think about the fact that people who fly for a living (e.g. flight attendants and commercial pilots) don't live less than you. Well, minus the sickness stuff.

Some good tips in here and I'll add my own as well. My fear came about like yours did, after a particularly terrifying experience on a flight. Here's what has helped me:

1. I picture what will happen as soon as I land: who will pick me up or where I will go. Rental car? Hotel? Meeting? Dinner? I just keep picturing what happens after the flight.

2. Reading and podcasts don't help me much as my anxiety will just make me not pay attention. What does work is focused work (writing, programming) with loud music.

3. I always watch the flight attendants for signs of fear. Not once have I seen any, even through pretty rough turbulence. I just focus on their faces to look for anything that might make me nervous (this could, of course, backfire).

4. One strange thing that really helped me was flying in a small plane through bumpy weather. I could see out of the front window in the cockpit from where I was sitting and, for some reason, it was much more fun than it was scary. We weren't heading for a mountain, we weren't that high up, all was OK.

5. I've been told that if the plane rips open for some reason, you immediately pass out from the low pressure so all of the things you're fearing - falling from the sky, hanging on for dear life - won't actually be experienced, worst case. Other crashes are just straight into a mountain or water, in which case you're unlikely to survive. You mentioned not being afraid of dying, which is my feeling as well, so those are comforting thoughts, in a morbid sense.

6. I overheard a pilot talking to a woman on one of my flights and he said that the absolute best way to overcome this fear is to go take a flight lesson or some kind of class that lets you pilot a plane, even for a few minutes. I have not tried this but I'd like to.

From your description, it sounds like this event made a sudden change in how you feel about it. It was a fear that sprouted up immediately after a definite source. You had an earnest fear that you were about to die because you didn't know turbulence like that.

That sounds like some kind of mild case of PTSD to me. It's not always super-dramatic shell shock or trauma from war; any fearful event can give you some level of post-traumatic stress. When I was twenty I was run over by a van running a red light and dragged along the road a good way. I was fine, but after that I had a very hard time crossing the street without getting jumpy and having my hair stand on end. If somebody edged out into the intersection to turn left instead of waiting behind the line, it made me freak out and run across or even turn back. It was an extremely physical sensation, like I was losing control of my body with fear. It looked really silly to other people, and I was kind of embarrassed.

I'm fine now. Even going to Southeast Asia and crossing the chaotic roads there which have no signals isn't frightening, where people must steadily walk through a mass of still-moving traffic. I think it was a case of exposure. I had to keep going out there and exposing myself to something I was afraid of. I lived in New York back then, so I was obviously exposed to it countless times every day as a matter of course. Flying might be different because it just happens so much more infrequently.

In any case, I'm not a professional; I hope you'll excuse my amateurish diagnosis and personal anecdotes. I'd recommend talking to somebody with training about your situation and seeing what they think. Don't be embarrassed because this isn't the kind of harrowing event typically associated with post-traumatic stress. It can happen at a lower intensity with everyday fears too.

I had trouble with flying, especially taking off, and my strategy for dealing with it was to buy a thriller of some sort at the airport, and start reading it prior to getting on the plane. Books by people like Tom Clancy, John Grisham, or Daniel Silva, are cunningly designed to be hard to stop reading, so as long as I have ten minutes or so before takeoff, I could usually get to a place where I was thoroughly absorbed in the book. One side effect is that I have read an embarrassing number of really cheesy books, but hey, it worked.

Step 1: visit the closest bar to your gate before flight

Step 2: Drink a large beer or whiskey on-the-rocks. Repeat until well-buzzed.

Step 3: Enter the plane and get yourself doing something to take your mind off of it, like music, movie, or book.

Cheaper alternative would be to get little sample shots from your local liquor store before you fly - those are allowed past security, and you can toss it in your orange juice while in-flight. Its a standard part of my carry-on now.

Benadryl will also work if booze isn't your thing.

The thing is, fear of flying is not a rational fear, which you already know. In my experience, irrational fears are best conquered by either chemical means, or embracing the fact that we can't always pick when we die, and for that reason you should always live life to the fullest. The chemicals also help with that idea.

Just do not open your alcohol in front of the flight staff in the USA. There are restrictions on passengers serving alcohol to themselves on flights. Some airlines will serve the alcohol to you that you brought on board, others will give you a less than gentle reminder of the policy.

I'll go a different way here. I've been flying planes since 2002 and am comfortable in the air in pretty much any circumstance.

That said, I think it's actually rational to have a fear of flying. It's unnatural and we've only been doing it a hundred years, so our bodies naturally say "this is weird and dangerous."

I think the best thing to do is to use the time flying as an exercise in letting go of the desire to control. Barring you doing something to force a landing, you literally cannot control anything about the outcome of your flight as a passenger.

So, the moment the door closes on your flight, you should focus on how everything following is out of your control. I find it liberating.

If you can stomach it, take some flying lessons. You'll be less scared of processes you understand. Start with a bunch of ground school, so you understand how the aircraft works, meteorology and the effort that goes into aircraft maintenance. Then, take a discover flight on a small aircraft and discover the love of aviation!

Can you take like a one off intro to flying and fly a plane? Or is it more involved then that?

Yes! A lot of private/instructional airports have what they call discovery or introductory flights. You sit in the cockpit of a Cessna with an instructor who takes you to a safe altitude and lets you do some turns and altitude changes in the plane, see the scenery, then takes you in and lands for you. The idea is you take this before you buy all the textbooks and commit to learning to fly to see if it's for you.

Figured there had to be something like that to get someone interested. Sounds fun thanks

One advice though is to schedule the first discovery flight closer to sunset when the air is usually very calm and there is no turbulence.

cool tip. Didnt know that. thanks

Great tip, similar to evening, early morning is my favourite time to fly because winds seldom pick up in the early dawn morning, plus better visibility and no traffic on the way to the airport. And it's beautiful!

I'm currently overcoming this fear myself after putting off flying for several years. It sounds like it might help you to learn more about how flying works.

Although it seems dangerous, turbulence is really nothing to be afraid of. I would recommend reading either Flying with Confidence [0] or SOAR [1] to learn more.

Think about how often pilots and flight attendants fly and how routine every flight is for them. Commercial aviation is incredibly safe. Even in the very unlikely event that you experience a plane crash, it's quite likely that you survive that crash.

Consider these statistics[2]:

> "In 2016 there were about 163 aviation 'accidents' worldwide, including those involving business jets and military transports as well as jet and propeller airliners.

A grand total of 24 resulted in fatalities, meaning only about 15 per cent of all accidents in this grouping - which themselves are extremely rare events - actually resulted in lives being lost."

I wouldn't recommend avoiding flying since that won't do anything to help your phobia. In the past 3 months I've gone on 11 flights and have 3 more planned next month. I'm actively working on getting over my phobia by flying often so that my brain gets desensitized to flying and doesn't perceive it as a threat.

You can also talk to your physician about your fear of flying and they'll most likely prescribe you something like Xanax to help. There are lots of tools out there to help you get over your fear and I'm confident you'll find something to help you :)

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Flying-Confidence-proven-programme-fl... [1] https://www.amazon.com/Soar-Breakthrough-Treatment-Fear-Flyi... [2] https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/2535002/plane-crash-survival...

soar helped me a lot. the whole thing with the "strengthening exercise" is pretty hokey and just totally ignorable IMO, but the 5-4-3-2-1 exercise single-handedly solved my problems with turbulence. i do it whenever the plane shakes and it damn near puts me to sleep every time; and over time i find that i don't need to do it as often, because i've gradually become calm by default in turbulence. which is great!

it's totally a night-and-day difference, i used to be terrified of planes and now they're just a mild irritant.

Cognitive behaviour therapy has a good evidence base and reasonable efficiacy for this kind of fear.

Some airlines will run a "get over your fear of flying" course.

Here are two, but there are others: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/travel-assi...

https://www.flyingwithoutfear.co.uk/

Came here to say this. It’s evidence based, very widely applicable for fears and anxieties, and easy to do self-guided. I used it to overcome a fear of needles. Still getting there but I’m now getting treatment I was turning down before.

You could try living in a place in the direct flight path of a small regional airport. Sounds awful I know but I actually kind of liked it for the time I was there. The airport wasn't huge so the noise was not constant, tended to taper down and end at night, and got some great views of the bellies of planes a couple hundred feet over your house coming in for landing.

I was afraid of flying at the time, but was never particularly scared of a plane crashing head first into the house oddly enough. In fact during the time I lived there I got quite into watching Mayday/Air Crash Investigation episodes. Pretty morbid considering.

I lived there for several years, and while I'd like to say that not a single plane crashed in that time, one actually did. It was a small 2-seater prop plane, lost height and crashed into the woods a block away from the house. No survivors. I did not witness the crash as it happened but I did sneak into the area and take pictures of the wreckage (thankfully crews had already removed the bodies). Quite a thing seeing the torn off landing-gear of the plane sitting upright on the ground.

Anyway while I'm sure that tangent didn't help you feel any better, for me the fact that constant commuter air traffic crossed my house for years on end (mostly) like clockwork made me feel a bit more confident about not dying in a plane crash if I ever did fly again (which I finally did, quite relaxing actually). Still not sure how I'd feel about flying on a tiny single-engine prop plane or the like though...

There is a simple algorithm called "Five Minute Phobia Cure", which can alleviate phobias quickly and permanently.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to find good information on it on the Internet (there are both bad descriptions and other things with the same name out there.)

However, since you should engage a knowledgeable practitioner (rather than just reading about it online) to learn about it, this isn't a huge problem.

Just so you know what I'm talking about if you go looking for someone to do this with, I'll sketch the algorithm:

A typical sequence begins with imagining you're seated in a movie theater, the movie screen shows the events you describe, the flight, the turbulence, etc. from a disassociated viewpoint, meaning that you see yourself on the screen (as opposed to seeing what you saw at the time.)

Next, you imagine being in the movie projection booth, watching yourself seated in the theater, watching the movie. This is a double-disassociation, an important point.

Then, you run the movie in reverse.

This process should be done with an experienced and knowledgeable practitioner to guide you.

For some reason[1] this double-disassociation combined with reversing the original event stream completely erases the phobic response.

[1] It would be nice if somebody "did science to" this process, but in the meantime if you can find someone who knows it you can eliminate your fear of flying in about five minutes.

I have two thoughts after reading your description of the turbulence.

One is that, flight attendants develop reflexes in response to turbulence, so for it to send 2 of them to the floor it must have been some extremely intense and sudden turbulence.

My second thought is that perhaps one of the greatest sources of your anxiety in that situation was seeing them hit the floor. They’re in a position of authority, part of their job is to make passengers feel safe and to protect them if anything goes wrong. And you just saw the people in that role hit the floor and become vulnerable in a moment of extreme duress.

I would suggest letting the airline know during check-in that you have an irrational fear of flying due to this incident. This will cause the attendants in your class to be debriefed on your condition (this is a daily occurrence for them), and they’ll often give you some extra attention during turbulence, or have the pilot make longer or more frequent announcements reassuring passengers during turbulence.

Another thing I might suggest is meeting up with current or former flight attendants in person. Let them know you’re trying to overcome an irrational fear of flying, and they’ll probably have some stories to tell, and I think you might find that reassuring.

You may have already seen most of the world, but your daughter likely hasn’t, and you likewise have yet to see most of it together with her. So I hope you’re able to overcome this fear, because the world’s cities and topography may not have changed much, but there’s still a whole world of new experiences out there. :) good luck!

What helped me was:

1) Consider the micromorts of the things you do in your everyday life. Chances are, many of them are higher than flying.

2) Look up flight accidents for recent years. Large airplanes almost never fall out of the sky. If they crash, it’s usually on the ground and survivable. Smaller aircraft are far more dangerous, but you can avoid them. Terror is somewhat localized geographically. You should also look up how many flights there are every day. It’s way more than I expected!

Here in the UK, several airlines run fear of flying courses. They involve a seminar with a psychologist and a pilot, followed by a short exposure flight. They report very high success rates. Is there anything similar in your country?

https://flyingwithconfidence.com/

https://www.flyingwithoutfear.co.uk/

These folks operate in the SF area and I've heard they're fantastic: https://www.fofc.com/

One thing you can try is, when you get to your seat, talk with a few people around you. Just enough to get a sense if somebody around you flies often. When you get into turbulence, or the fear starts hitting you, look at the face (not awkwardly) of that person. You may even have a pilot sitting near you. If anything, look at the flight attendants faces. Are the flight attendants giving each other looks? Does any of the above people's faces show worry? 99% of the time, you will not see even a slight look of worry in frequent flyers. Just think about that, these people have been through it all. Crazy wind landings, extreme turbulence, bad storms, most everything. If they are not worried, take comfort in that.

If they are worried though... well.. then.. yeah. Also, if you do this, and your daughter is with you, even if you are worried, try and stay calm and not show it. This will comfort your daughter as she is looking to you first.

Edit: One more bonus! If you know someone who flies military aircraft, or know somebody who knows someone, try and talk with them sometime. Take them out for a beer. They'll tell you some things that will make bad turbulence in a commercial jet seem very minor =p Might give you a good relative scale of things.

We are almost done with our VR program for fear of flying: http://FearlessVR.com

It's based on exposure therapy / systematic desensitization. It has special sections for turbulence as well as other common underlying fear of flying issues.

I successfully overcame my fear of spiders using Fearless for spiders.

That's a brilliant idea. Have you been working with any mental health professionals to ensure your tools are in line with professional guidance for exposure therapy?

Same thing. I flew around the world dozens of times and my fear developed gradually over time. In the same way yours did, by experiencing some scary incidents.

I don't have a cure for myself so I obviously don't have one for you, but here are some ideas:

1. Look at how many flights work out well https://flightaware.com/live/ there's something like a million people in the air at any given time. It's extremely unlikely that your plane will be the unlucky one. Take a screenshot and keep it on your phone.

2. Think through how horrible a crash would be and then just accept that you might die like this. You're going to die eventually and this is far from the worst way you could go. Your family will probably get well compensated which is a plus.

3. Sit in the stable parts of the plane, which I believe is towards the front and over the wing. The tail flexes which makes for much worse turbulence.

4. Consider drugging yourself. I can't do it but lots of people pop an anti-anxiety pill. Your doctor will probably give you some if you tell them you can't fly. It may completely solve the problem by altering your brain chemistry. Not a good idea if you're at risk of developing an addiction.

5. Fly on the high quality airlines with big planes. They don't want to lose those $500 million planes so they generally staff them with good pilots and do proper maintenance.

6. Don't fly when the weather is bad, just because it might feel scarier.

7. Try to avoid flying at night, just because it might feel scarier.

8. Watch pilot videos on youtube to see how incredibly stable modern airplanes are. These machines are incredibly fault tolerant and capable of recovering from severe problems in many cases. They're not flimsy or weak. They're really badass.

That's fairly interesting that the fear developed over time. The conventional wisdom is that repeated exposure makes things familiar and in turn would lessen any fear you would have of the thing.

I wonder if "developed fear" would be worth studying.

As I mentioned in another comment, I find the lack of personal space to be the biggest anxiety provoking element of flying, which raises my baseline anxiety enough that I can become extremely anxious once you add the relatively small amount anxiety I experience from just flying. Under different circumstances, my anxiety is far lower and I don't cross the threshold into "anxious", for example, when I'm in business or first class, or I otherwise have plenty of room to myself.

I wonder how widespread an increase in flight anxiety is as airlines add seats to planes and increasingly fly planes at max capacity.

> 1. Look at how many flights work out well https://flightaware.com/live/ there's something like a million people in the air at any given time. It's extremely unlikely that your plane will be the unlucky one. Take a screenshot and keep it on your phone.

Can that work against a fearful mind though? Look at all of these planes flying safely! Statistically, in a strange way, the chances of a crash are only increasing in light of all of those safe flights I'm watching on Flight Aware.

I have a similar flying anxiety. I beat it by getting a prescription for Xanax. I take one in the cab on the way to the airport, and enjoy a relatively calm flying experience.

Since you are posting on HN and I'm guessing you are technically minded, you might find this really interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai2HmvAXcU0 - it's a video from a documentary about the development of the Boeing 777. Specifically, the video shows a test where they bend/stress the 777 wings to the point where they actually snap.

Spoiler alert: they snap at orders of magnitude more flex than you've ever seen.

Even for very severe turbulence (like you experienced), it's very comforting for me to know (via that video evidence) that even if I haven't seen turbulence this bad, the people that made the airplane definitely thought about it.

I was going to post this same comment. When I was a kid, I used to look out the window and worry that the wings might fall off because I could see them flexing.

Then I watched the video above, and I was like - huh, I've only ever seen the wings move maybe 1% of the max stress test amount, and that was in really bad turbulence.

I stopped worrying that the wings would fall off. Once you know the wings won't fall off, I found it very easy to picture a safe/glide recovery from any other basic accident, and I stopped worrying altogether.

My problem with airplanes is claustrophobia. After years of fairly-regular flying the claustrophobia suddenly grew intense --- and it has stayed at that level --- after being jammed into a non-reclining back-row middle seat on a flight from Istanbul. Fortunately, I discovered the person seated next to me just happened to be a therapist. She kindly volunteered to get me through the flight by talking to me and distracting me from my surroundings. (What a sweetheart she was!)

Of course, I can't travel with my own therapist so now I take a half gram of Lorazepam at the start of each flight, a drug that magically removes my fears. I also always get an aisle seat.

I’ve struggled with this for years and missed important events as a result.

I went to the doctor and got a small prescription of anxiety medication and it helped me tremendously. I take a small dose once I get in my seat on the plane.

It doesn’t make me drowsy or feel very different but the extreme levels of terror that I felt before don’t affect me now. I still have to be calm and rational as I’m preparing for my flight but the fear is completely manageable now.

I’ve even taken flights without any medication since and feel so much more at peace. I would have never believed that would be possible before medication.

Your mileage may vary but it has given me my ability (and desire!) to travel back.

Do you happen to remember what medication it was?

I haven't been prescribed medication for fear of flying but the most common options are the families

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_blocker

both of which are rather fast-acting and very effective for many cases of acute anxiety and other stress responses. Most mental health professionals and primary care physicians should be familiar with these uses. They may recommend trying out the medication before your trip so that you're familiar with its effects.

The benzodiazepines (such as Valium, which someone else in this thread suggested) can be addictive with frequent use, so it may be preferable to get small-quantity prescriptions occasionally rather than stocking up.

Some of the people I envy the most never fly anywhere! The ferryman down river has an idyllic existence, his one outing beyond the nearest town is to a boat show although he has been known to nip across the English Channel on his other boat to stock up on booze. He has the most wonderful family and pretty much everyone in the locality knows and loves him. He does drive so not all of his life is at single digit speed, however, after a chat with him or his son you do have to wonder why be so busy on these new fangled modes of transport?

Maybe embrace your lack of enthusiasm to fly, it really is not mandatory or even necessary for a happy life. Develop your own perspective on the world and avoid wasting your life sat in airports being frisked by people in uniforms. Take trains, ride a bicycle and question whether you really need to find out about the rest of the world from 30000 feet. Perhaps let the world come to you instead, rather than go on holiday to India spend some time with the Indian folk you work with or live nearby to. Same for every other country, see this approach as better, more cost effective, financially and in time.

There are no pearly gates however, if you just don't fly because that is nothing to do with how you live your life then you need not feel guilt and shame for being complicit in destroying people's right to peace and quiet, not to mention the environment.

Flying isn't what it was, there is no romance in it, it is not special. In the days of Concorde, Trident and when the 747 was new flying wasn't for everyone, you had to be someone to be doing it. You could smoke at your seat then and buy huge bulk packets of cigarettes 'duty free' right there, on the plane. Better? Not necessarily. More exciting? Definitely.

There really is nothing 'time saving' about flying. You can live life to the full without spending a week or two of your year being processed by planes, getting to airports and putting up with delays. Plus there is the time required to pay for all those days flying and the taxi trips. Then if you are not working whilst being processed by Big Aviation then you are not earning. Give the whole lot up and if you do the maths then it is more like a month rather than a few days that you get back per year, time to enjoy living rather than being jet-lagged/flying. Plus those are guilt free happy times - you aren't trashing the skies - and you will be pleased you had this fear of flying thing. Obviously only chuckle to yourself at the antics of those ordinary people doing there ever so busy but tediously dreary flying stuff as they will never give up the Kool Aid.

I developed a fear of flying in my late 20s. My doctor prescribed me a low dose of Xanax specifically for flying. I take it about 1-1.5 hours before takeoff and it significantly reduces my anxiety about flying.

All the techniques listed here are helpful and may solve your problem in the long term. But honestly there's nothing wrong with taking medicine, especially if it's just when you fly and it makes the experience tolerable. The only potential negative is you can't mix it with alcohol on the plane.

If the extent of your anxiety boils down to "I take Xanax when I fly" then it sounds like you're doing fine!

This. Anti anxiety medications work. Save your self-behavior-altering energy for things that matter more in life. Xanax will also help you sleep on flights.

I also have a crippling fear of flying but i will fly in 10 days so i did a "test run" with Lorazepam which helped my step-dad who didn't fly for 20 years and is now anxiety free during flights with no medication needed. I was watching flight videos on youtube and found myself giggling in euphoria.

I can relate to this. What it really came down to with me was that I felt anxiety not about the plane crashing, but being in a situation that I cannot control. This mostly stems from my personal situation. I am a divorced dad of 2. I have access to my kids more than standard dad custody, but not as much as I would like. Most of my thoughts are around dying before I am able to see my kids grow up and make it into adulthood. I hate the thought of dying before they are grown and can have a real chance to know me on a deeper level than what parenting allows.

A few things helped me. First, I got the Headspace app and bought their guided meditation package for fear of flying. It has a routine that stops you from falling into the self-defeating spiral of anxiety that you get from thinking about flying. Now it seems that they've partnered with some airlines to provide an in-flight audio channel for this guided meditation: https://www.headspace.com/partners/airline-partnerships

The second thing that helped me is telling myself that because of how the plane flies, there is effectively a wall of air underneath it propping it up. This wall of air is buttressed by such a strong force, that it behaves much like an actual solid surface.

Third, specifically for turbulence–I've read that the overwhelming majority of turbulence incidents are extremely routine for flight crew. They are nowhere close to any cause for concern. Whenever we hit turbulence, I tell myself that what we're experiencing is nowhere near the level that would affect our flight in any way.

That said, turbulence is always disturbing and in the moment it's hard to force your brain to accept it. What usually works for me is focusing on others–essentially people-watching. Making human contact in those situations always acts as a stress-reliever.

I loved flying as a kid, and I loved being high in the ski lift. But as soon as I had my young kid on me on the high ski lift all rationality left me completely.

I am not afraid of much, I have sky dived (freaky but sooo fun), rock climbed (scared spitless, but did it) and crazy roller coasters (love the thrill). But as one of my kids was on a crazy coaster I was as afraid as they were.

Maybe seeing them being safe and feeling safe themselves, and seeing them in control (as they got older) is what helped we deal with the uncontrollable terror that struck me when they would shake the chair or lean over the edge.

My own fears, not a problem, I can face them all day long, fear of my kid getting hurt? Logic over emotions, just gotta face it repeatedly until it goes away? (that's the only thing that's ever helped me truly get over fears.)

Edit: This is a trite phrase, but... "the difference between fear and excitement is a smile". It's a little lame, but some people are adrenaline junkies and going to the edge is actually "fun" for them. When I "know" everything is ok, but don't "feel" it, I remember this phrase and try to channel my inner adrenaline-junky. It work often than not, and at least gives me something to do.

I have learned to actually enjoy some things this way. Silly, but when you are out of options, sometimes the ridiculous becomes the only option left.

Face it. I was really afraid to fly for years, but when I had the opportunity to travel overseas, I decided that I'll fly - even I am frightened about flying. Actually I have to say that my fear always vanished when the plane's door was shut, I guess I realised that I can't do anything against it - and it calmed me. I played with a lots of flight simulators when I was a kid, that helped a to know what exactly happening, and knowing is the best way to overcome fear - but that wasn't enough. Before each flight I my guts were sick, I just can't do anything against it, that came from my nerves - fight or run. I clearly remember the moment when I get over my fear: I was sitting on a plane which flew from Dallas to San Jose, sitting next to a huge guy, and that was my 23rd hour awake, and that was my 20st hour of the trip with several layovers. And I started to HOPE that we'll die. I mean I was exhausted, I was nervous, I wasn't able to sleep, and then there came the thought 'how easy it would be if we just crash now, that misery would be ended' and BAM my fear was just out. It just went through on my mind, and I guess that was the moment when I accepted the idea, that I could die on a plane. Who cares? Probably I wont. And my fear was over.

Here's some advice I've given to people over the years and hopefully it will work for you.

A day before or the day of the flight purchase a lottery ticket. You'll bring this ticket with you on your flight.

Before you board have a look at the ticket and verbatim tell yourself this: as lucky as you would have to be to win with that lottery ticket, you would have to be even luckier for your plan to crash. You are not that lucky.

Repeat as necessary but do not change the wording.

This works for most people I've counseled.

The best part of this advice is that the worst-cast scenario is that you win the lottery.

I was in a similar spot as you: rationalizing an irrational fear I knew was irrational from an understanding of statistics and just common sense. How many planes did I watch fly overhead yesterday? How many actually crashed? Why am I so special that the plane I'm on will crash? It helped.

But I would always have this uncomfortable worry while flying. Any bump would jolt me from an uneasy sleep. I got over my that by facing my fears and fighting the irrational ignorance that came with it by educating myself. I went to my local private airport and asked about a discovery flight. I sat up in the cockpit and saw how a plane works. I asked the pilot what those bumps are and what those sounds are when they happen. I saw his process for taking off and landing, and preparing the plane for each configuration. It contextualized all the noises and horrifically scary (and in hindsight silly) moments where I was certain that the plane slowing down to extend its flaps for landing (like the most normal thing a plane can do) meant we were crashing.

I ended up with about 12 hours of stick time, but I had done enough takeoffs and landings to know that bumps are normal, you don't freak out when your car drives over a pothole, you shouldn't freak out when your plane flies over a patch of bumpy sky.

I have a B.S. in Aerospace Engineering, and the structural/functionality tests these planes go through is intense. That combined with systems engineering (so, so many things have to go wrong for a plane to crash) and statistics (it is extremely unlikely that you're ever going to be someone that's in a plane crash), I haven't even been concerned in turbulence strong enough to cause other people to cry.

Planes are built for turbulence- passengers are not.

Funny how this thread surfaced now. I'm in a similar place.

I didn't use to fear flying until I got my first (and only) panic attack (not in a plane).

The trick I used to fight anxiety was walking around and it always worked for calming me down. But guess what, you cannot get for a walk on a plane so I started fear flights for a fear I might get a panic attack. Long story short after lots of workarounds and googling I found that there's a company called psious[1] (not affiliated with them other than using their product).

You cannot use their system on your own (I asked) you only use it with a psychologist/psychotherapist. Basically it works by exposing you to a simulated flight through VR and the psychotherapist helps you with tools like diaphragmatic breathing [2] and cognitive behavioral therapy [3] to ease your anxiety levels.

To be 100% open/clear I haven't flown yet since I started the therapy but I can tell my mindset has changed from trying to avoid flights at any cost to having booked flights and waiting (a bit anxiously :) but nowhere near at the paralyzing level) to actually fly.

[1]https://www.psious.com

[2] https://www.cmhc.utexas.edu/stressrecess/Level_Two/breathing...

[3]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy

Edit: formatting

Ask your doctor for valium (or similar) before your next flight. Something like valium will help remove the anxiety of the flight and perhaps even allow you to sleep for part of it. If you can teach your primal brain that everything is ok again you'll likely lose the fear as quickly as you gained it.

You just needs some experiences without the anxiety to help your subconscious learn that fear is not a useful reaction to flying.

Simply breaking the fear cycle sounds like the key for you since you learned the fear recently rather than had it from some buried childhood experience.

Another good thing to try if you don't want meds is to accept the anxiety rather than overcome it. While panic comes on observe what it feels like, let it wash over you, acquiesce to it. This has worked for me in the past with panic attacks, it is quite effective if you can get yourself into enough presence to try it. You'll find that underneath the panic or anxiety is nothing, do some belly deep breathing to help, and maybe learn a bit of light meditation to take yourself deeper. But seriously, beating anxiety in general is more about allowing it than rejecting it.

I had a similar experience. Before I was a casual flyer, and then on my way to Wenzhou in an Airbus A320 we had a sudden jolt of turbulence going sideways. After that experience I didn't enjoy flying, and would grab the seat armrests at any form of turbulence.

It sounds daft, but I used to repeat a phrase in my head when flying: "safe, calm, happy". It's more of a psychological trick than anything else, but I found it helped me to adjust my thinking at moments.

Recently, I took a role which meant working abroad, and then I realised that I would need to be doing quite a lot of flying to get back for various events. In July I've flown 9 times, 2 of which were on a propeller plane (Bombardier Q400). The experience of doing that many flights means that I don't experience any anxiety when flying, but I still tend to strap myself in a bit more tightly whenever there's some turbulence.

Oh, and the other thing that helps is sitting next in the window seat - being able to look out the window when the plane is taking off, in flight and landing helps. You also get to see some great views.

I had a similar experience and delivered a similar fear. I wasn't afraid of being dead, I was afraid of dying and the emotional pain that would occur as the plane falls from the sky (or whatever). Like you, I knew rationally how unfounded this is. I've been getting more comfortable with flying by accident since my bad flight experience.

Two things, the first being rationalization, the second being more immediate:

1. I read that a plane has never crashed from turbulence. If somehow this is not true HN audience, please don't inform me otherwise. A crash every X million miles or flights isn't that concrete for some reason, but "never" makes me less scared some turbulence is going to knock the wings off. Along the same vein, I think the last US commercial passenger crash was in 2009. That's more concrete than the statistics. Nine years since the last crash. Pretty good.

2. I got a prescription for some benzodiazapenes for flying. I was stuck in some kind of feedback loop, where I was initially kind of scared of flying, there'd be some minor turbulence, which would make me freak out, which would be unpleasant and give me additional anxiety about flying. White-knuckling a flight for however many hours is unpleasant enough to fear itself. Also, my primary fear was the same of yours, I was afraid of feeling afraid as I was dying. Taking the benzo made me think, "if I'm drugged maybe the descent won't be so bad," which helped acutely, and over time it made me have more tolerable flight experiences. After flying three or four times without a fear in the world I forgot my benzos and found that my fear of flying now still exists, but can be rationalized away much better than before. Unless you fly multiple times a week, drugging yourself through the experience isn't generally a bad idea. Flying sucks so much even without fear that it's kind of a preferable way to go anyway.

Great question. I used to be scared of flying, despite doing alot of it.

A few things cured me. I watched alot of aircraft carrier landings, especially in bad weather. Even in those conditions the plans land nearly every time. I realised that in contrast, passengers jets are nothing more than highly reliable, safe slow buses.

Also I came to realise something about courage. Fear of flying is being scared about something that has not yet happened. So I simply decided I would be scared when a plane was actually crashing. That's courage - not being overly concerned about something until it actually happens.

The other thing is to understand that the physics of plans is really on your side, especially during landing - these things are incredibly stable as they land and the design of the plane is forcing it down during landing .... it's really highly unlikely something will go wrong.

And finally I thought about the statistics - you are literally more likely to die in the car ride to the airport than on the plane.

It helped a lot to learn as much as I could about the way planes "operate". I have a physics background, but rather that dealing with fluid mechanics, lift, etc, what really helped me was understanding the day-to-day operations of planes and pilots - what all of the lights and sounds mean, why certain small parts of the plane are designed the way they are, etc. The YouTube channel "Captain Joe" helped me a lot with this. It really shows you how much thought, planning, and effort goes into making sure your flight is safe and smooth.

My advice is learn and think about this on the ground, when you're not getting ready to take a flight, or at the airport, or on a plane - that way you're not having a psychological response and can think more rationally about these things. There's nothing worse than having a panic attack on a plane and having your companion urge you to think about probabilities :p

Flew a lot for work. Then took a real dodgy flight from Vegas to NYC in 2012 [0] that was as close to crashing as most people have come. When the plane took off I heard noises that I just knew were not good. Ever since then I've found myself a bit anxious when flying. Nobody would ever notice by looking at me, and it feels weird to admit, but every flight I'm hyper sensitive to noises and sudden movements, especially during take off. Know how I get over it? I keep flying. I keep paying attention to those noises/movements and my reactions. It's all in my head so my aim is to win the battle on those grounds.

[0] https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/06/20/passengers-describe-...

How about you distract yourself with movies, books, music, drinks or good old fashioned mild sedatives.

I find that reading, or movies completely relax me because it takes my mind away from thinking about bad things that might happen, which are not in my control.

Maybe a puzzle, sudoku, cross word?

what is something you enjoy most? Find that out, and carry it with you.

get a better boarding position, pay if you have to. settle down, relax, stay hydrated, get some noise cancelling headphones.

if watching out the window makes it worse, dont do it. focus on whatever activity you picked up.

if a turbulence happens, my thinking goes like this - "if this were a bus or a car, would this level of turbulence make me worried?", the answer is always No. if it gets worse, allow yourself to be scared. dont hold it back, say it out loud to your neighbor or to yourself --- "ooh, that was rough. " verbalizing our fears help us stay less panicked.

hope my tips help you.

travel safe and enjoy the wide open skies

I used to fly quite a lot before and never really worried about it.

Now that I have a wife and live in Australia, I routinely have to take 14h flights to get back to Europe.

14 hours is a long time without touching the ground.

Lately, I have started developing a fear of flying.

I guess my problem is the lack of control. The thought to have to let somebody else be in charge of my life is a bit upsetting. No amount of rationalization can overcome my fear.

I have read the statistics and I still feel afraid. I Have started experiencing mild panic attacks. My head starts spinning, I am sweating profusely, my palms and wet and my heart is raising and I am grabbing the armrest in a desperate attempt to not die. Even the slightest turbulences now upset me.

I think I need some help, maybe therapy or medication.

My next flight is in 6 months from now and I am already starting to be afraid of it. Even just reading this thread made me feel uncomfortable.

About 30 years ago, I had the very same experience as you. A very fast mouvement of the plane to avert a collision during an air traffic controllers strike over Paris. At the time, I was flying about twice a week. For about 18 months, I was so frightened during my flights that I was feeling exhausted when bording off the plane. I finally cured it by learning (in principle) how to pilot a plane, by reading books and using MS Flight Simulator (on an IBM PC/AT at the time !). It completely cured me. Since then, I have flown hundreds, maybe thousands of times without any fear. I amuse myself by watching the knuckles of my neighbours when the plane moves a bit : if they turn white, it means that they are feeling very nervous about it! It's a lot more common that one thinks. Good luck!

About 30 years ago, I had the very same experience as you. A very fast movement of the plane to avert a collision during an air traffic controllers strike over Paris. At the time, I was flying about twice a week. For about 18 months, I was so frightened during my flights that I was feeling exhausted when bording off the plane. I finally cured it by learning (in principle) how to pilot a plane, by reading books and using MS Flight Simulator (on an IBM PC/AT at the time !). It completely cured me. Since then, I have flown hundreds, maybe thousands of times without any fear. I amuse myself by watching the knuckles of my neighbours when the plane moves a bit : if they turn white, it means that they are feeling very nervous about it! It's a lot more common that one thinks. Good luck!

There was a time when I was developing a mild fear of flying. Never enough to stop me from getting on a plane, but I was really uncomfortable on those planes if there was turbulence.

Now, I still don't like turbulence, but my fear has mostly gone away. The reasons are 1) having been through enough insane definitely-gonna-die-now turbulence and not died to build my faith in the technology, and 2) knowledge about the statistics and rarity of airplane crashes. All I can suggest is hammering those two into your brain and letting your rationality take over.

Now if only I could figure out a solution to my fear of heights, which I'm currently convinced is pretty rational... (edit: fear of edges/cliffs would be more accurate I suppose since the height of flying doesn't bother me...)

I have a fear of heights and also a level of social anxiety. For both meditation has helped me a lot. The fear isn't gone but I can see it for what it is and live with it. This works with a lot of unpleasant things. They are still unpleasant but I accept them and ride with them.

I make flying simulator for the military, pilots use my software to learn how to fly with a Panavia Tornado.

I know how hard they train, how much they know and how hard it is to crash. I know a plane can land gracefully by itself, that there are at least three redundant navigation systems and at least two landing system, and that on a civil plane all these systems are duplicated because there is more space to put them. I know a plane can land with only one engine, and in some cases with no engines at all.

I know that when I fly I'm one inch to certain death, but I also know that that's an inch I'm very hardly going to cross.

I know all this but sometimes I'm anxious too. I guess it's normal, I just have to think rationaly or not think at all with a book or a good sleep.

I go on live-leak once every few months and watch questionable material. Things like OSHA incidents, fatal freak accidents, war,gopro adrenaline videos, etc. I find I need to remind myself that I am lucky and grateful for the life I have, and to take safety seriously. I also do this to build willpower and fearlessness in many things, because I would have seen it already once. So when something imminent does happen I have natural instincts to do whats needed

When you realize you have a higher chance of dying in a car accident than a flight things are put in perspective. You won't have a choice in either case anyhow, shit just happens. Accept that some things are out of your control and you take a gamble at everything you do in life. Not everyone wins.

Ride with someone more scared.

In the 1980s I was on a regional flight that had to come back around and land after a cracked engine manifold caused a small fire that burned a grapefruit-sized hole in the cowling. It was a wide circle and a smooth landing, but I didn't care for it. After that, I really didn't want to get on anything smaller than a 737.

Some time later I found myself on another puddle jumper. The fellow across the aisle was another nervous flier, it seemed. He was deeply unhappy to realize that the woman collecting tickets at the steps was the co-pilot, so that there was an all-female cockpit. That and the mild turbulence kept him unhappy for the duration of the flight. My amusement killed my nervousness, which has not returned.

I have a mild fear of flying, I don't avoid it but I do feel anxious on the flight especially if we hit turbulence.

What's helped for me is imagining how many flights take of and land safely around the world each day. It's very very rare that a plane crashes, I don't know what the odds are but they're very small. There's a higher risk of being involved in an accident on the way to the airport.

Someone once told me that in order for a plane to crash 16 critical mistakes have to made in a row or something like that. Very unlikely.

It may help for you to watch or read information that details all of the safety that's done around flying so you'll feel more confident next time you fly.

Ultimately you can only concur your fear by facing it.

I’ve become terrified of flying over the last year or so. I know planes are over engineered and essentially never crash from even the most severe turbulence. My fear is specifically around placing my life in the hands of a random pilot who may either be suicidal or “zone out” at a critical moment. The GermanWings flight and (very likely) MH370 were brought down by suicidal pilots. There have been other incidents as well. The AirFrance flight a few years ago was brought down by the flight crew spiraling into a panic. Plane designs are already crazy safe and get safer all the time. Pilots scare me. I can’t wait until we have some kind of pilot less plane.

Do not be worried for your daughter. Be loving. You had the opportunity to travel freely, and she now has the chance, if she chooses to take it, to do so too, at a time when air travel has never been safer. Celebrate that thought. I am incredibly grateful that, since being young, my family committed to taking a trip to somewhere overseas every year.

Of course the safest way not to die on a plane is not to get on a plane. The safest way not to die of starvation is not not to eat. They are not equal.

The flight attendants got back to their feet and will do so again and again, and the pilots will train again and again, and the engineers with check and test every part again and again.

Your post sounded very much like my own story. Flew most of my life, wasn't particularly afraid until a night-time flight with severe turbulence where the plane dropped so fast the only thing that kept people from hitting the ceiling was our seat belts. A few people screaming, lots of scared murmuring. After we got off the plane, we heard there was bad weather with 100km/h winds. Ever since then, the slightest bit of turbulence gets me very anxious. I'm also less scared when I'm alone (dying alone isn't as scary), but usually I'm with my wife & kids, so the fear amplifies (even though they are all quite comfortable).

One coping mechanism I recently came up with is that I realized it's not so much the fear of crashing that I have (I've been able to rationalize about how turbulence != crash), but it's more that when the turbulence starts, I hate the unpredictability of it - I have no idea if the next bump is a small one, a big one, or one so big it will cause panic in the cabin. Thus even the smooth waits in between become angst-filled.

On a recent vacation, on the ground, I ended up playing with my kids on a "parkour" playground, running up and down hills, jumping on trampolines, getting the same feeling in my stomach and inner ear as a bumpy plane ride. So once I was back on the plane and we hit some turbulence, in my mind, I visualized myself running around that playground again. I know this sounds silly, but it worked wonders. When the bumps came, my mind was already prepared as it was pretending running and jumping on a trampoline. This helped me cope a lot, by taking me to a different place.

Many people mentioned hearing pilots attitudes towards turbulence helps and I can totally see that. However, one thing that I wish they wouldn't do is announce before the flight that a) it's going to be a smooth ride or b) there will be some bumps along the way. For me, at least, in scenario (a), if we hit some unexpected turbulence that makes it worse for me because I know the pilots weren't expecting it and (b) if they say there will be a bumpy ride, I'm bracing myself the whole time and I've been on flights like that where they ended up being 100% smooth :/

If you can afford it, fly first class. I don't have a fear of flying at all, but I get anxious from the crap that accompanies it: the rush through security to the gate, the cramped aisles during boarding, being thirsty and having to wait a long time for a drink or to use the bathroom. Buying a first class ticket takes care of almost all of this. I usually have to spend a couple of hundred extra on my own dime on top of the coach price that my employer pays for but it's worth it. I get to my destination relaxed, having spent the four hours stretched out, working on my laptop and sipping on a glass of scotch.

Lots of great advice in this thread. But as someone with a moderate fear of flying who travels occasionally for work, one analogy has helped me reason through my fear. At speed, an airplane is dealing with air as if it were a boat in water. The air you're flying through is as thick and powerful at speed, and turbulence is nothing more than ripples in the water. The air is literally capable of lifting the gigantic vehicle that you're in. It's way harder for the plane to resist the thick-air than it is to keep on flying. Keeping this in mind has helped me worry far less about periodic disturbances.

I had no issue flying for years until I went to visit a friend near a smaller airport and had to take an Embraer E-120 commuter jet, which is usually configured for three-abreast seating in coach. The flight there was fine, but falling asleep on the return flight and waking up in the tiny aircraft somehow triggered a panic attack.

After several years, I still haven’t completely regained my former lack of flying anxiety, although avoiding smaller aircraft has helped. It’s not really even anxiety about flying itself, but about having another panic attack, and specifically anxiety about triggering it by falling asleep in-flight.

I was a very fearful flyer, couldn't stop visualizing possible accident scenarios while on an airplane, sweaty hands, grabbing the arm rest, all that. Today I rejoice the experience so much that sometimes I consider buying a ticked just for the sake of flying. I even get excited for simple short haul flights on economy, flying new airplanes, airlines etc.

At the end, it all came down to three things:

1. Learning about aviation as a hobby

As software engineer, it was very easy to get invested into learning about these wonderful machines and how everything around them works. As soon as you understand what is going around you, all the safety measures, redundancies etc., you feel more in control of your environment. Weird noises don't come as surprises anymore[1]. To help you with this I'd suggest following some aviation related channels on Youtube.[2]

2. Flying a lot

I had to spend a couple of years flying 4+ times per month. Having a ton of positive experiences on airplanes does wonders to your uncouncious fears.

3. Flying upper classes

This is a lot harder to do, depending on your financial condition. I do my best to pick a good seat for my flight, hunt for upgrades, use miles to get business/first tickets. Flying on upper classes does wonders to "soften" your experience.

[1] Some examples:

- Airbus flap actuators are usually very noisy and you can hear them if you sit close to the wings.

- Hydraulic actuators on some Airbus models make a barking noise.

- While sitting upfront on smaller planes, you can get some vibration right after liftoff due to the front landing gear spinning before it is retracted.

[2] Suggested channels:

Captain Joe: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC88tlMjiS7kf8uhPWyBTn_A

Mentour Pilot: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwpHKudUkP5tNgmMdexB3ow

A book that has been incredibly helpful for me and family members is Code to Joy, by George Pratt and Peter Lambrou. They also have good tools in Instant Emotional Healing (older book), but it's more technical and not as beautifully written.

Reading this book will give you an understanding that probably the episode of turbulence resonated with some other past experience(s), and had a multiplicative effect on your fear. These effects are deeply engrained in the unconscious mind, and are hard to deal with through rational or conscious thoughts.

The book guides you through a process to work on these issues.

I had a spell a while back - particularly with take-offs - and something that really helped was paying attention to the mind-boggling amount lift that was generated by putting my hand out the window of a moving car.

I resumed flying after 20 years on the ground a while ago and of course discovered that I have a fear of it.

What helped me was the sight of the shuttle driving us from the airport to the city almost rear-ending somebody who cut it off. I realized then that aside from spacecraft the machines we use are highly dependable - it's the interaction with other people that's the most dangerous thing.

Currently the moment we're in the air I'm calm, but there's still some residue anxiety during takeoff and landing.

I don't fly a lot now though because the level of comfort comparing to a car is abysmal.

Rationally you must know that driving is more dangerous than flying. You're still afraid of flying though. My guess would be because you are not in control of the outcome. With driving, you at least have some control.

You need to accept your own mortality and that tragedy is an inevitable part of being human. Even your own family can experience it, and that tragedy could occur on a plane.

With that all said, the odds are very bad that you'll crash, but you only have two ways out of this: you convince yourself that it will never happen, or you accept that it could.

Get some experience flying a small plane. Like many here, I love to fly (destinations, seeing the world from above) but my lizard brain kept being nervous, particularly with turbulence. Then I flew over the Grapevine in from LA to the Central Valley in a Cessna in summer. It was choppy and there were drops, but they always recovered. I could feel that the air was there to catch us even though it let us drop a bit. Now turbulence is fun.

Try to think of it like a roller coaster: your reptile brain is freaking out but you know it’s not actually in danger.

Just one more reassuring comment. I met an aerocraft engineer. He ONLY worked on the one part of deploying The face mask that is, the act of deploying a latch thing. And said this one part goes through something like a million cycles of deployment.

And to certify an aircraft they hire pilots to take off and land for two or three years continuously. As well he said it is manually impossible to crash an airplane. Bad things can happen but you would need many in a row for anything to happen. All in all, lots of people work really hard to keep us safe.

If you have the money, learn to fly. Find an instructor willing to work with you in spite of your fears. Sometimes the best way to overcome something is to face it with the right person at your side.

I would highly recommend finding a therapist who specializes in Acceptance Commitment Therapy (ACT) which is a form of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy that has been shown to be particularly successful in treating anxiety disorders.

[Edit] "Disorder" isn't really the best word for it. You're just kinda stuck in a little loop. It's really not that bad and you shouldn't feel bad or get down on yourself for feeling it. But, on the same token, the avoidance behaviors aren't going to do you any favors.

as a kid i was scared shitless of flying. the idea of being blasted across the country in a pressurized metal tube was overwhelming to me. when my family was planning a trip to orlando for disney world, i contemplated staying behind with family so i didn't have to get on that plane. in the end i went, and overcame my fear of flying. now, i prefer air travel to just about anything else.

part of what helped me is my mother's job working as the business manager for a local hangar and airplane mechanic. hanging around the hangar i saw how many hours went in to maintaining even the smallest two-seat planes. i heard about how many hours pilots logged before they could even look at a small regional jet. the mechanics, pilots, and engineers working on those commercial planes are all the best of the best.

turbulence: when a plane is between 20-40k feet, what feels like a catastrophic drop is, subjectively, not a big deal. sure it's scary and the plane bounces around but the plane will not go down in turbulence. it may drop 10, 20, 50 feet. but you still have 19950 to go before problems arise.

finally, don't psych yourself up reading the manuals about what to do if things go wrong. don't even listen to the presentation. put some headphones on and look out the window at all the people working hard to make sure you and yours arrive at your destination safe and sound.

hope this helped even a little bit. flying is stressful even when you're not scared, but it allows for so much freedom.

Paul Graham used to have fear of flying (ptesophobia?). When I met him at an International Lisp Conference, he said that he was dealing with it drastically: by taken up hang gliding. There's an account of it here: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/magazine/y-combinator-sil...

I assume he has a pilot's licence by now.

My fear subsided somewhat when I realised that a modern passenger plane costs at least $100 million - circa $400 million for an A380.

The owners, insurers and operators do not want to risk that investment.

Not sure if this is of any help or not but I went through a short period of extreme fear of flying. I overcame it, I believe, because of what I would have to give up if I took the decision never to fly again. If this is an option for you and it would not negatively impact your life then, of course, you simply do not need to fly again. For me that was not an option; it would have seriously negatively impacted my life and so once I had made that decision it became easier, actually fun, to fly again.

I had exactly the same issue. And i think what got me through was flying more often. It didnt get me completely anxiety free but i kinda sometimes forget about the fear. And also researching and flying only airlines that are considered safe. Its a bit more expensive but to me worth it. And also choosing driving or train when possible. Lots of options just try everything you can, we are all different something will work for you. Or not and you'll be afraif forever ... then use drugs

I have the same fear of the moments preceding. My anxiety goes through the roof when I think about the environment I am in at 35,000 feet. I keep my mind occupied by mentally removing myself from the environment. I fire up my laptop with headphones and work as if I am in the office. This works for a portion of the flight. Sadly, for the remainder, I typically dose myself with something to put me under until someone taps my shoulder to put my seat up for landing (the worst part). FML

It's a bit of a shortcut, but diazepam or xanax or something similar really works wonders. It doesn't knock you out or anything, it really just takes away the anxiety.

Due to my anxiety disorder I have been through a group based CBT course. Our group was heavily focused on systematic desensitization, one particular technique that was prescribed for patients whose fears could not be easily reproduced in vivo was to put a most detailed worst-case scenario in writing and then having it read every few days, until the level of anxiety caused by reliving it in fantasy decreases to manageable levels.

Here's what did the trick from me: learn how a plane works. In detail, every piece. What are flaps, what are ailerons, what is lift, etc. etc. Read all the Vanity Fair articles explaining famous crashes. When you understand it all, it demystifies flying, and it's a lot easier to feel comfortable in the air.

I've almost entirely lost my fear of flying since, even in turbulence. I take about 100 flights a year and 150k miles a year.

I could add to that; Watch Air Crash Investigations (also under the name Mayday). It's amazing to learn how everything works and has dual failsafe systems, most crashes result in changes in aviation regulations and/or service bulletins for the airlines.

Then think how many car crashes there are.

Fun fact: on average 2 people die every day in an air crash. Wow... guess how many die in car crashes per day?

How do you feel when you get into a car?

Air Crash Investigation is great. It's like a true-crime show for engineering.

What you gather after watching dozens of episodes is that almost all accidents happened many years ago before modern planes and regulations and/or due to an exceedingly rare confluence of events.

For me, it was working at Boeing on critical flight control systems. Knowing how everything worked (and how safe everything was) took all the fear out of it.

I won't say this will work for everyone but I took a Ground School (classroom lecture portion of pilot training) course at a local college. Now that I understand the basics of operating an aircraft, all aspects of flying seem much more routine and less frightening.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_training

Fears aren’t rational. They are emotional. It will take a long time to address it with just your thoughts. A better way is to try to address the emotions and fix that. You have a lot of choices here. Some examples are a therapist, spirituality, meditation, a coach, flying lessons, or flying repeatedly until the fear goes away. Trying to solve emotional stuff with intellect is not the most effective way imho.

I highly recommend watching this video from flight chops. This is his second attempt to help his friend with her fear of flying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLv609ABHBA

Basically doing some instruction in a flight simulator with a real instructor seemed to help her out quite a bit when nothing else seemed to work.

Sadly, very recently a friend of mine's therapist suggested he overcome his fear of flying and having less control.

Granted it is a small plane, but it crashed. Of my friends, 1 is paralysed and the other is dead. The pilot is dead too.

I've always wanted to take some aerial photos, but now I'm having second thoughts about being in a small plane. I have no reservations about getting on a jumbo jet though.

Oh no, so sorry!

The same thing happened to me. I was fine with flying until my early 30s, when I was on a flight with some terrible turbulence (~5 second sudden drop, enough for passengers to start screaming in terror).

I travel a lot for work, unfortunately. I try to close my eyes and listen to the same music every takeoff, which helps a little.i guess. Never found a solution for bad turbulence mid flight though.

I like checking the aviation forecast for my route so that I know when and where turbulence is expected. Knowing in advance what’s expected helps me feel better about the whole experience. It makes me think that perhaps whatever flying jitters I have are about the unknown.

https://www.aviationweather.gov/

1) consider the statistics and understand that as long as you are on a major airline, the moments that you are in the air are literally the some of the safest moments of your life - much safer than when you are in a car or even walking around, probably even eating

2) get a prescription for klonopin, and take 1/2 or 1/4 a pill 30 minutes before boarding. (not im not a doctor)

I know not everyone have the means for that, but here we go:

Why don't you try to take flying lessons ? Or at least the basics:

- Weather

- How a plane works, flies and such

- Wind, current, clouds, etc.

This can be quite effective. I know of a few people folks who took a lesson or two in order to overcome their fear of flying, and ended up not only overcoming their fear but loving the experience so much they're now private pilots.

Often times your local flight school will offer an inexpensive "discovery" flight lesson for <= $100.

Alternatively, if you're in the SF area I've heard these folks are fantastic: https://www.fofc.com/

I hoped flight school would rid me of acrophobia (I realize it's a different fear but still, you're high up in the air). I earned an instrument rating and started working on my commercial ticket before the money ran out but never cured my acrophobia.

I used to get moderately anxious when experiencing turbulence while flying.

I tried a several different strategies that I researched, but I completely eliminated my anxiety by imagining that I was riding in a big Greyhound bus and we kept running over some really big pot holes in the road.

It seems silly to me, but it works great for me. I feel totally calm even during pretty heavy turbulence.

Planes don't fall, they glide. Also, dropping a few feet when you're at 20,000' to 40,000' is a small change.

Many planes have "fallen" thanks to stalls.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stall_(flight)

1) Stalling is not falling vertically.

2) Airliners are designed as stable instrument platforms, so it's unlikely you've been in an airliner that stalled.

I have had some fear of flying.

Read up on the science of turbulence and how robust these planes are. I occasionally still get waves of fear esp when they are descending fast with turbulence. But after really studying what turbulence is and how strong planes are engineered you will realize that it is very very unlikely turbulence would ever take down a plane.

Take a flying lesson. For most, fear of flying is a lack of control issue, and taking control of a plane helps it greatly. You can get an introductory lesson at almost any small airport for around $100.

I learned to fly from a lady who took her first lesson that way, on the recommendation of a therapist. She ended up an aerobatic instructor!

Play Kerbal Space Program and try to build a plane. Once you understand the forces operating on an aircraft during flight, you'll be considerably more relaxed. In short, you learn that while it's real hard to get a plane to fly, it's equally hard to get a (structurally sound) plane to stop flying.

Remember - an airplane has never crashed from turbulence. When I was around 8 years old, I was on a flight whose engine blew up. We had to land using one engine.

If that doesn’t stop me, then turbulence shouldn’t stop or scare you. Treat it like a roller coaster ride and enjoy the fake rush of nervious energy and live your life!

This may not work but could be worth a shot and lots of fun. Buy a RC airplane and learn to fly it, nothing crazy but not something to cheap either ($200 from a Chinese site). This should give you a much bigger appreciation for flying (it did for me) and make you very excited the next time you are flying.

I subscribe to the following thought:

Pilots are like dentists: When they are about to do some work, and they tell you "it is going to hurt a little" you can be sure it is going to feel like hell. So when a pilot tells you you will get some light turbulence, you can be sure it is going to shake like crazy.

Rationality may or may not work for your fears but here is an emotional component - every plane crash makes international news. Car crashes are so frequent they may not make local news. Before nearly every potential crash trained professional piliots are fighting for everyone's lives.

You may also want to compare that to the probability of road accident. I don't remember where and when I've read it (and haven't validated the sources) but IIRC, cars have significantly worse number of fatalities per kilometer than planes.

https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-tips/airplanes-safes...

1 in 114 chance of dying in a car crash vs 1 in 9281 chance of dying in a plane crash. You can verify this anecdotally...we all know someone who has died in a car crash (I know at least 6 close friends and relatives who have), but nearly no one knows someone who died in a civilian plane crash.

But his fear is irrational so I don't know if statistics will help. Most people are afraid of sharks, lightning strikes, and snake bites even those these events are extremely rare, and nearly no one fears heart disease or cancer which are the top two causes of death by a factor of tens of thousands. 600k people will die of cancer this year vs maybe 500 plane deaths.

These are kind of statistical lies. Flying on commercial airlines is very safe but almost everyone abuses the stats to tell a false story.

1. Per hour vs per mile is a completely different stat. Every hour in a plane is possibly more dangerous than every hour driven by a cautious driver. Of course it's true that you can cover far more ground in a 500mph plane.

2. Most Americans drive a lot more than they fly so even if they were equally safe there would be far more fatalities in cars per capita.

3. You can do a lot to mitigate your chances of a fatal car accident, like choosing a safe car, practicing defensive driving, not driving in the rain, not driving drunk, not driving at night, etc. A cautious driver will have a far lower chance than the average stat.

4. Also, driving is quite scary. I can't wait for a world with computer controlled cars that rarely crash.

When you compare accidents by mile or by hour air travel is still much safer than driving. It is true that to drive 12,000 miles would take 12,000 hours while you can do that in 20 hours in a plane. That said you are also more than 50,000x as likely to die in a car accident.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety

> When you compare accidents by mile or by hour air travel is still much safer than driving.

Can you provide a citation for the per hour stat?

> It is true that to drive 12,000 miles would take 12,000 hours...

Uh, what? No one drives 1mph. It's just 200 hours at 60mph.

> That said you are also more than 50,000x as likely to die in a car accident.

Based on what stat? The wiki page said that per mile traveled it's 750x times higher. But this still doesn't address the per hour safety. Or the fact that people probably drive 1000x more than they fly or whatever the number is.

It also doesn't address the main point which is that many fatal accidents involve drunk driving, etc. So your individual risk factor might be incredibly different from the average. Unlike with flying where you have almost no control over your own safety and the average is very meaningful.

Can you provide a citation for the per hour stat?

I didn't do the math before, but let's try some back of envelope math. You can estimate it based on mileage. Assuming that a car averages 50mph and a jet averages 500mph, then you spend 10x as long in a car as you do in a jet per mile flown. So if you are 750x more likely to die per mile in a car than in a plane, then you are 75x more likely to die per hour in a car than in a plane.

Uh, what? No one drives 1mph. It's just 200 hours at 60mph.

Yeah I accidentally pasted the 12000 where the 200 was supposed to go

Or the fact that people probably drive 1000x more than they fly

This is actually an interesting question. It would be very difficult to compare because there is a population that drives extensively and perhaps never flies (e.g. taxi, delivery, truck drivers), and a population that flies extensively and never drives (e.g. Wall Street banker, flight attendant, student traveler). As an example, I drive about 14k miles a year and fly about 20k (round trip to the Philippines is 14k alone and I do that every year). I can see most of the population never flying at all, in which case they drive infinitely more than they fly?

That all seems reasonable. I do think my contention that a cautious driver could probably beat the safety of an airplane is plausible but it could also be untrue.

A quick look at the stats show that most fatalities involve distracted driving, speeding, drunk driving, bad weather, not using seatbelts, etc. And there's even more variables like vehicle type, speed, urban vs rural, etc.

Another major factor is averaging short flights with long flights because the biggest danger for planes is in take-off and landing. 10x200 mile flights is far more dangerous than 1x2000 mile flight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_safety_in_the_U...

https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/...

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-statistics/fatalit...

That's interesting...I was actually trying to find stats broken down by the type of driving. 10 seconds of illegal street driving or drunk driving must be many times more dangerous than dropping kids off at school or picking up grocery driving. It would be interesting to get the stats broken out by type of driving.

I remember finding a government site with these kinds of stats decades ago when fighting a red light camera ticket and finding that something like 95% of red light accidents came more than 10 seconds after a light turned red, but that 95% of red light camera tickets were issued during the first 1 second after a light turned red. I ended up getting the ticket dismissed because I convinced the judge that my red light running was harmless because it was half a second after the light changed.

Fear of flying is actually fear of not being in control. You need to work on figuring that out - why does the lack of control freak you out? Why can't you just "go with it"? It also helps to learn some of the basics of modern aviation.

Hence "Fear of Flying" by Erica Jong. Does more information really make it less scary, I feel it might help you find your way but not because you know more.

It helped me, ymmv.

I regularly fly on intercontinental lines over the Atlantic. Sometimes a strong turbulence happens while we are somewhere in the middle over the ocean. I usually afraid there's no emergency airport thousands of miles around us literally.

There's Iceland, the Azores, Ascension Island and a few others.

https://uploadvr.com/flight-is-a-photorealistic-vr-app-for-f...

Start taking lessons for pilot license, initially with sailplanes (i.e. you can't make an error). It's fun, especially when you get to practice tailspins and free falls after a tasty breakfast!

Just remember that you are way more unsafe in a car than in a plane.

While somewhat dated, I highly recommend the Dale Carnegie book:

How to stop worrying and start living https://amzn.to/2OyxSTh

It gives lots of practical steps on how to deal with worst case scenarios in your mind and then prepare for it.

My favorite example from the book: a man who was in charge of loading explosives onto cargo ships during one of the world wars was paralysed by the thought of the explosives detonating. The book outlines how he overcame that fear essentially by putting the worst possible scenario in perspective.

Highly recommend it.

Beta-blockers have been helpful for me for fear of flying (and other situational fears like public speaking)

http://www.kickhealth.co/blog/beta-blocker-tales-stage-frigh...

https://www.anxieties.com/159/beta-blockers

Skydiving helped me. It's easily the most terrifying thing I've done and really put staying in the plane into perspective.

I just consider the pilot's point of view. They fly much more, and actually have control in the case of a safety concern.

I look up fatality stats for flying versus driving to the airport.

It's somewhat funny- we should be more terrified of cars than of planes!

pg learned hang gliding to deal with this. The story is at the end of https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/05/magazine/y-combinator-sil....

Hey hey! Hang gliding! Anyone reading this comment, I highly recommend learning how to do it.

what really helped me was reading about how airplanes work. The technology was fascinating to me anyway, but once I found out how crazy redundant all the systems were I feel much safer than in a car. A car has redundant brake systems, but that's usually about it. Big commercial planes have 3-4 of nearly everything

Get professional help.

A specialist in EMDR [1] told me that typical traumas (and, I believe, phobias) go away after 8 weeks of treatment.

The key difficulty is getting the patient to show up for treatment - many will fight tooth and claw, and many others will find themselves too drained of energy to make the move.

[1] http://www.emdr.com/what-is-emdr/

My wife is psychotherapist, and she says overcoming fear of flying is very easy to learn. Go visit one.

I always found being immersed in a good book, podcasts or pocket reading list worked well.

If you sit right over the wings the effects of turbulence will be less pronounced

I'm with you.

I was always scared of heights, and I ended up doing exposure theory inadvertently.

I had a job on a second floor with no windows... then I had a job on a second floor with windows, followed by a job on a third floor with windows followed by a job on the FUCKING 23rd floor. What the fuck was I thinking?

Fly Qantas. They've had zero fatal accidents since the jet age.

Maybe you can try to see VR high-altitude bounce

That's not fear it's excitement.

I had a fear of flying that stopped me from doing all sorts of things. I missed out big time.

For me, facts don't help. Visualizing it helps. See https://flightaware.com/live/. I love thinking about the fact that all of those planes that you see on that map will land safely because there will not be any airline deaths in the United States today or this month or most likely this year or for years to come. Many will go through turbulence worse than you've experienced. Some will have to return to the gate for little issues. But all will take off and land and be fine.

Until the recent Southwest accident this year there wasn't an airline accident in the US since 2009. If you fly in the US there aren't deaths per day, per month or even per year. The US went 9 years for 1 death on large scheduled commercial flights.

Even if one plane on that map had one accident with 1 death, today... You aren't lucky enough to be on that plane. If you told me that one plane on that map had Madonna on it, I'd tell you I'm just wouldn't be lucky enough to be on that plane.

Compare the turbulence you feel on the plane to the turbulence in your car. More often than not you will experience way more bumps in your car. The turbulence in your car is more dangerous to you than the turbulence on a plane.

If you want less turbulence than sit closer to the wings. The plane pivots around the wings and I often sit there and see people bouncing around in the front and back but barely feel anything from where I sit.

The larger the aircraft the more experienced the pilots are. The airline jobs used to be (not sure now) hard to get, so you are always going to have extremely qualified people flying your plane. Even when flying on (what my mom calls) a putt putt plane, the pilots on those aircraft have so many hours of flying it's insane. Airlines pilots are often just really boring people (sorry pilots). Your flight may be one of 4 they are doing that day and one of 12 they are doing that week depending on the distance.

Everything is planned out. I mean everything. Even the extremely rare idea of an engine failing during take off. You will be fine even if that happens. http://qr.ae/TUIWQI. Which it won't happen to you, again you just aren't lucky enough.

The turbulence you are scared of is not what brings planes down. They can withstand insane amount of turbulence, way more than you can imagine. That is why the wings flex. So even if you have turbulence that pops opens the luggage bins, it just isn't the thing that causes a plane to crash. A plane doesn't even bat an eyelid from that type of turbulence.

The things that have caused planes of the past to crash, have a really nil chance of happening today, because when bad things happen they fix them so they never ever ever happen again. Millions and millions of dollars go towards researching and fixing the problem.

Even small accidents cost airliners insane amounts of money and horrible PR. That recent Southwest flight accident will wind up costing Southwest Airlines > $100 million dollars. You can bet that they are going to research the crap out of that accident to make sure nothing like that ever happens again.

If all that fails, go to your doctor and tell him that anxiety is preventing you from living your live because of a fear of flying (it is) and he will prescribe you an anti anxiety medication to take ONLY on flights. After which, I promise, you will LOVE flying and you can live your life again.

Lots of great ideas here and this is a long shot but you could try to engage the placebo effect. Go get some bullshit homeopathic “medicine” as a pseudo-treatment for your fear. The great thing about the placebo effect is that it works even when you’re aware you’re being treated by a placebo.

Do it, like any fear.

You and I have the exact same fear, literally with all the thoughts and symptoms you describe. Here was how I coped with it.

1) Limit flying, of course. Find a job that doesn't require travel by plane. Keep family and friends in the same locale if possible.

2) Comfort yourself with statistics. Cars on fast roads with no barriers are pretty dangerous. There's a low chance that you will be one of the unlucky few hundred that die on a plane every year out of tens of millions of passengers.

3) Benadryl + sleep strategies. If I have a morning flight, I stay up all night before hand and then take 2-3 benadryl right before boarding. It takes about 40 minutes to work, and it hits like a truck.

4) Let go of things you can't control :) Hard one....

I developed a fear of flying about 10 years ago because of a similar incident and lost it only a few years ago.

I'm a big plane buff so my problem used to be that I knew just enough to scare me - in my opinion, being rational rarely helps matters when you're in the moment. With that said, you should be aware of a few things.

1) Turbulence isn't dangerous to an aircraft. Very extreme turbulence is part of the design process of all aircraft - they test the airframe so that the wings can bend almost 30 degrees!

2) Even when going through turbulent air, the plane is not moving a significant amount compared to the height you are flying at. Very extreme turbulence might push you up or down several feet. You're traveling 30,000ft + above the ground. As long as you keep your seatbelt on you should be perfectly fine.

However, there are some things you can do to ameliorate these concerns when you're booking travel.

1) Fly on larger, more stable aircraft. Prefer A32X's, 737's and up over commuter jets or turboprops.

2) Pick seats near the wing. Generally turbulence is less well felt near the wings of the aircraft compared to the back or the front.

Consider that maybe one reason you're so afraid is because turbulence is asynchronous and that maybe makes it less tolerable than if you knew exactly when it would come. So when you feel that startled shock when the plane randomly drops a few feet, remind yourself that this is "how it's supposed to be" and it's not actually an unexpected sudden failure of the aircraft.

I recommend getting a window seat so you can distract yourself and watch the beautiful scenery. Plus it can feel more "synchronous" when you see your plane enter a thick cloud, then feel a few bumps. And as another poster said, don't drink caffeine.

Your bad experience was probably a 1e-5 event, so it probably won't happen to you again.

Accept your death every time you sit in the seat.

xanax!!!

Works for me. .5 mg per flight and I no longer have panic attacks on planes. Don't ever take it for other things than it's intended for, though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorazepam works for me

>How do I overcome my fear of flying?

Here's a good allegorical story that can help with that:

"There was a rich merchant, who after having been out travelling with his caravan for some time, reached the outskirts of a town. The evening was late, but he needed a few things so he sent his best servant to the market. At the market the servant happened to meet Death. It was easy to recognize the sinister face of Death, they were no more than ten meters away from each other. Death saw the servant and raised his hand. The servant instantly became terrified and fled head over heels to his master without having bought anything at all.

Back at the merchant’s tent the terrified servant told his master whom he had met at the market. The merchant immediately gave the servant one of his fastest horses and told him to ride the whole night without stopping and by dawn he would be safe in Samarkand. The servant rode as fast as the horse could carry him. That night it was only him, the horse and the glistening stars.

Early the next morning the merchant went to the market and also he happened to meet Death. The merchant, who was annoyed instead of being afraid, went straight up to Death asking what he ment by threatening his best servant. Death calmly replied “I wasn’t threatening him, I was merely greeting him. But I must say I was very surprised to see him here since I am supposed to meet him in Samarkand tonight”.

Or, to paraphrase a saying we have here, "They who are meant to drown, are resistant to any other kind of fatal incident".

We shouldn't concern ourselves with statistically insignificant odds such as of a plane crashing. Heck, a car accident is an order of magnitude more likely -- and even more so at the rate we get in cars or cross roads vs being on airplanes.

Or, to just use the words of Hunter Thompson: "Buy the ticket, take the ride".

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