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Comment by chrissnell | Hacker News Reader

I've been burned multiple times by this; the worst was a pair of remote control off-road trucks for my sons' Christmas presents. They had hundreds of 5-star reviews and both units worked for maybe 5 minutes each. Within days of Christmas, the listing was flooded with 1-star reviews from other conned parents with very similar stories.

The number of products impacted must be far over the 1% claimed. There are whole categories that have been ruined by Fake China and kids' toys is probably the worst. Headphones, as mentioned by another commenter here, are another.

This problem is quickly destroying Amazon's credibility with a lot of customers. I went to a Best Buy for the first time in a decade to buy a pair of iPhone headphones, just so I'd be assured a genuine product. I now buy my kids' toys at Target, just so I can be assured that there's a reasonable chance that they aren't crap.

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> This problem is quickly destroying Amazon's credibility with a lot of customers

It has totally destroyed their credibility with me personally. I used to be an avid Amazon shopper. It was just too easy. I now actively find stores locally to shop. Does it make a difference to Amazon's bottom line, not in the least. While it might be less convenient, I feel less dirty than supporting Amazon. There are times where local stores do not carry something, and I still have purchase from Amazon but only if I can't find it anywhere else first.

I still buy a lot of stuff from Amazon but I have found that I cannot trust their review system at all. So all research is outside Amazon or else I'm basically treating it the same as Alibaba.

The thing that utterly destroys credibility in my eyes is that fraudulent sellers are able to target name brand listings by offering fakes at a slightly cheaper price than the original manufacturer. There are apparently some mitigations against this but their use must not be widespread among sellers or something because I've been burned by this.

I can handle getting some crappy set of headphones but a big let down for a child's Christmas is just so upsetting to a point that maybe I've got unaddressed issues. I have a toddler and I think I'll gladly pay the premium to buy Toys R Us stuff I can touch and play with in the store.

> Toys R Us

Um, I have some bad news for you.

They seem to be strong here in Canada. I hope that lasts. Walmart is the only other option and it's not really an enjoyable experience.

Hilariously, ToysRUs are still big in China. Lots of kids and parents shopping. How did the vultures only get the US stores?

They got the UK stores too. :(

What I always disliked about toysrus was that no matter if you went at the quietest time you had to queue forever at the checkout. There'd be just the one till open and they'd only open a second one if people were getting restless.

As of the last decade, the quality of products from Toys R Us wasn't that great either. If there was a name brand they had it and also a cheap inferior clone. If no name brand existed then it was just inferior junk. The only real exception was there stuffed animals which were all pretty nice.

Water toys were mostly all garbage.

> pay the premium to buy Toys R Us

Toys R Us is NOT "premium". Even back when it existed a few years ago.

Melissa and Doug is "premium" for toddler toys. Spend a little bit more, and you get quality toys that is even a bit fun to use as an adult.

Plenty of those stores around, and their webstore (https://www.melissaanddoug.com) is well featured.

Based on my experience with buying kid's toys... Toys R Us failed to stock good enough quality for me. If I wanted crap toys, Walmart and CVS had plenty. Target's selection of toys is mediocre, but I find a few dolls here and there worthwhile.

A "major" gift is almost-always a Melissa and Doug splurge moment.

I've never trusted Amazon for kids toys either. But Toys R Us was also in a similar boat for me of low-trust low-quality products.

My approach has been (1) to filter the reviews by critical reviews and read them quickly - that has tended to show the real problem that the shallow 5-star (or 1-star) reviews hide. The aggregate rating (4.5 stars) is totally useless now. I also look at the product's fakespot rating when I remember to do so.

1: when I have to buy from Amazon, i.e. none of my other options such as Walmart (90 day returns, fast shipping with no membership), Best Buy, etc. have the item

Ever since BestBuy has started price matching amazon, I have started going there a lot. And the purchases have been significant: a modem/router, a laptop and a couple of fitbits.

Nothing better than being assured that the product you receive is genuine and well priced.

The thing is, you really can't buy from anyone but Amazon directly anymore. The marketplace is flooded by chinese off brands that break the moment you touch them. At least that's the situation here in Europe.

Don't know which European country and which product category you're thinking of, but e.g. for tech that's not true. There are plenty of reputable tech online stores in Germany (e.g. Mindfactory, Alternate, Reichelt, Cyberport, Arlt in no particular order). I expect all of these to be able to ship to at least all of the continental EU.

What I meant with "can only buy from Amazon directly" is that I don't use Amazon's marketplace features. Of course, OUTSIDE of Amazon there is competition especially in the electronics category. I actually usually order my electronics at Alternate, if their prices aren't way above market which sometimes seems to happen with them.

Is there a way to actually do that for most stuff? I actually want to buy some real Apple EarPods and the first 30 results seem to say supplied by some random outlet for about 25% the regular price. Dunno if there's a only show direct from Amazon button somewhere?

Of course there isn't, they would lose a lot of sales that way. For the Apple EarPods, they've been out of stock for months now, since everyone wants to get their hands on them and Apple seems to be not be up for the demand, dunno why.

For things like headphones you should definitely try to find domain experts who have put significant effort into researching and documenting the difference between products, and then purchase based on their review until you're able to make the purchase on your own based on trying the product out in person.

I knew nothing about headphones, bought a few based on expert reviews (maximizing quality in my price range), and now I feel confident when trying out "floor models" at my local audio store.

If anyone's interested in the head phone website, I can provide it. Just didn't want to seem like I was shilling a blog. If you search Google "site:reddit.com in ear monitor review blog" you'll find it, and this is a pretty good formula in my experience for researching consumer products that have a high information asymmetry.

When researching a pair I blindly sleuthed around before asking an audiophile friend of mine who referred me to http://head-fi.org which is where I ended up narrowing my selection down prior to finally examining models at stores. Build quality and noise cancelling were significant factors in my purchase.

Does Amazon accept these faulty items back and refund the customers if they ask? Do they pay the return shipping cost? Assuming yes, surely this is costing them a lot as well.

Amazon accepts returns for 30 days and pays for shipping if you select "Item defective or doesn't work" for your return reason. However, that kind of con may still be very profitable for merchant since many buyers won't bother returning. 1. Pay for couple hundred 5-star reviews before Christmas 2. Get tens of thousands of orders 3. Send people cheap defective items that costs 1/10 of price to manufacture 4. Profit! Even if 80% of buyers return, it could still be profitable.

The seller can also just hit and run leaving Amazon with the losses.

Not if they only get the money after the return period is over.

Exactly - any big company will usually pay for the stock 30, 60 or even 120 days after the delivery. I can't imagine Amazon pays their suppliers immediately.

"sellers", toy was comingled and Amazon doesnt track inventory source.

I guess that's the only legislation in place right now - that is, Amazon can't be sued / held liable for e.g. broken goods or false reviews if they offer a gratuitous return policy. Like how youtube can't be held liable for copyright infringement because they offer a gratuitous takedown procedure.

So my understanding is this: as a seller, buy subpar version of whatever item. Send it to Amazon to be comingled with every other item sent to Amazon for that SKU. Sit and wait, Amazon will use some of your stock to fulfill orders from this listing (so other sellers' sales will result in buyers receiving some of your stock). You'll also make sales yourself, and Amazon will send whatever stock from that pool of item (so not necessarily the exact ones you sent in, and most likely the genuine/better quality ones other sellers sent it). You make the sale, keep the money. Meanwhile, the buyer who got your item when buying from another seller will complain and return their item. The seller (not you!) will have to issue the refund and eat the cost. Voilà, you've exploited amazon's comingling to your profit and actually made money off of it.

They do, but sadly, the remote control trucks that I bought had incredibly cheap packaging. Once I unpacked them, the kids immediately put them to use and everything got scattered to the wind (it's Christmas morning, after all) and I couldn't find enough of the packaging to do a return. I should have, though.

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