Did MoviePass Just Die? Ticket Service Outage Again at Major Chains | Hacker News Reader

Did MoviePass Just Die? Ticket Service Outage Again at Major Chains

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29 pointsjger1522 comments

Curious why movie chains themselves don't sell "season passes", like almost every other entertainment venue. Sure, it might be much more expensive than MoviePass in order to stay profitable, but I haven't seen any movie theater near me attempt something like this.

AMC and Cinemark, the major chains around me, have those kinds of programs already. I think most chains are starting to implement this.

They're not entirely subscription services, but memberships to offer cheaper tickets to frequent moviegoers etc.

Cinemark gives you about a $1 discount for one ticket only when you subscribe to a monthly membership, which includes only that said ticket per month. It doesn't make any sense.

The Cinemark membership is $8.99, the general admission (2D, non-matinee—what you get the ticket for with the membership) for my local Cinemark theaters is around $12.50.

That's more than a $1 discount. It also includes add-on tickets at the same price (structured so it's basically unlimited viewing for one person plus optional guest at the $8.99/ticket price), concession discounts, and waiving of online ticketing fees.

It's not really anything like MoviePass, but it definitely makes sense.

That's only for a 2D ticket. The AMC subscription for 20$ a month is so much better if you even go "only" twice a month.

I see. In my area, general admission (2D, non-matinee) is $9.25 (I thought it was $9.99, but I just checked), so that's why I find it nonsensical. In SF it clearly is a good deal, especially if you frequently go with your family.

The Cinemark one for us is about $4 cheaper than a regular ticket (SF bay area) and also gives 20% off concessions and you don't have to pay the extra fee charged for standard online purchases.

A few chains have started... AMC, Cinemark are a couple I know of. They aren’t nearly as attractive as MoviePass of course, but at least they are sustainable.

AMC now offers this: https://www.amctheatres.com/amcstubs/alist

I think something like a 'membership card' that offers rewards would be more preferable for a theater since it could encourage repeat purchases rather than a single purchase every so often.

Probably because they have high marginal costs (a lot of the ticket price goes to the studios). It would be like a music venue selling you a subscription, but then has to pay the band most of the subscription price if you show up once. I guess it's possible, but there is a reason why your local venue doesn't offer a subscription.

To be successful at this you'd need buy in from the studios and that will be a tough nut to crack.

What entertainment venues were you thinking about that offer subscriptions?

Fun fact: in Germany you can get cinema (flatrate!) subscriptions ranging from EUR 226 per year ($264) [1] to EUR 399 per year [2].

While I understand that $10 per month is far too low to cover the costs, it is beyond me how expensive US cinemas are. I paid ~$19 for a cheaper spot in a 2D movie and a small drink at an Oakland cinema. In Berlin that gets you a 3D extra-length movie (3h+), a lot of popcorn and a big drink.

There's even a cinema where you have someone going around bringing you stuff, a footstool and guaranteed space around you for EUR 10 ($11) per ticket -- it even includes a glass of sparkling wine. [3]

[1] Independent cinema chain in Berlin: https://www.yorck.de/shop/das-kinoabo-unsere-jahreskarte

[2] Bigger cinema chain; includes 2D and 3D movies: https://www.cinemaxx.de/zeitkarten

[3] "Premium cinema" in Berlin: https://berlin.astor-filmlounge.de/astor-film-lounge.html

Their goal was never to be profitable on paper, but acquire a ton of users and use them as bargaining powers for big theaters. It never worked though, as AMC and the others understood pretty well that the best way to deal with them is to ignore them and let them die which would eventually happen.

It is a shame, because there is a real issue in the US with movie theaters that are mostly empty due to Netflix and other "At Home" offerings. The marginal cost of someone going to a movie is zero, so there is definitely some business there.

That's not a problem, or at least it's not a problem outsiders can solve, it's a problem only the Theatre chains can solve.

If MoviePass had negotiated great discounts and co-marketing agreements with the chains up front to re-sell their unused seating inventory, it might have made sense. As they did it was one of the dumbest business ideas ever, and gives credence to the rumor that early backers were trying to launder money from a previous fraud.

> It is a shame, because there is a real issue in the US with movie theaters that are mostly empty due to Netflix and other "At Home" offerings

Theaters are just about as busy as they have ever been and are at revenue highs. It's nothing like what happened to CD sales after digital took over.

It might be. My personal experience though is that whenever I go (usually peak time on weekdays), it is 98% empty (only the typical couple central seat being used).

The movie is going to be projected with or without more people. Even selling the seat for 0.5$ generate some money for the theater, and probably even more given what the average user spends at the concessions. I'm oversimplifying since the Producers of the movie request X$ per ticket, but you get the idea.

MoviePass managed this badly, but there is definitely an opportunity here.

The split adjusted 52-week high for HMNY (parent company) is $9,714.37 and it closed today at $.80... That is impressive!

I cannot imagine how bad whoever decided at HMNY to invest in MoviePass is feeling right now.

MoviePass' huge losses only began after HMNY bought them and reduced the membership price by 80%. Feel bad for whoever made that decision (likely the same person, though).

MoviePass is an awesome out of the box idea that everyone was too scared to try.

But unfortunately MoviePass doesn't have a sustainable cost structure because it hasn't partenered effectively with movie studios or theatres.

So MoviePass will clear die a quick death very soon but hopefully someone with better business acumen will get the cost structure right and then this will take off.

I think the trick will be that successful MoviePass-like offering would give you non-desirable seats or give let you watch on non-prime days unless you paid extra to make up for the difference. Then it would be helping to monetize spare capacity rather than taking away money crowding filling premium seats with lower revenue customers.

It's not an out of the box idea. It's not awesome. It's subscriptions applied to movie theaters.

It's hard to call an idea "awesome" if it involves giving away money to strangers without any chance to recoup it.

I considered getting a MovePass membership, but it was so clear that there was no economic way they could ever sustain their business, and I'd probably get stuck holding the bag after they charged my card.

To work Moviepass would need massive discounts from the chains, and ion reality they got exactly zero discounts. The main people attracted to it's business model were hard core movie watchers would were guaranteed to use the service a lot. If their average member saw more than one movie a month they lost money on that member. If they saw three movies a month, MoviePass is losing like $20 a month per member.

And that's just on cost of services. It doesn't count marking costs, sales costs, operations, etc. Even if their members only watched a single movie a month, MoviePass would still lose gobs of money.

And the idea they could switch to offering non-prime seating or times is also dubious. Let's assume they can get consumers to pay $10 a month for the "non-prime" offering, those consumers only watch two movies a month, and that movie theaters agree to discount those "non-prime" tickets by 50%, or an average of $4.50 each. Now MoviePass would have $1 per customer per month in positive net margin (10%), but there is no way they can pay for all sales, marketing, and operations costs out of that, and build a profitable business to boot.

Think of it this way, going non-prime means their product just got way worse, so how are they going to get customers? Right now their product is a great deal and sells itself, but the cost of acquiring new users for the non-prime product is going to be a lot more than $1 each. It will probably cost 1-2 years to earn back the cost of acquisition for each customer. Will the average subscription even last over a year?

Warren Buffett has a great saying about businesses. Go find a business that's so easy an idiot can run it, because sooner or later an idiot will. In the case of MoviePass it was, go build a business so hard the best CEO in the world couldn't run it, and only idiots will run and fund it.

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