Comment by owenversteeg | Hacker News Reader

Comment by owenversteeg | Hacker News Reader

> More seriously, she worries that low-cost Chinese-manufactured goods are starting to offer real competition to secondhand goods in developing markets.

And this is what I worry too. Not just in developing markets, but everywhere. I buy a very large amount of used tools and electronics, but recently new tools and electronics have gotten so cheap it usually makes much more sense to buy new.

You can get a slightly older phone used for about $200 or so, but there are plenty of great brand new options around $200 as well. You can get someone's old angle grinder used for $10, but you can buy a new one with a warranty for $14.

I personally don't care about scratches or heavy visual damage on my stuff, so buying used usually makes sense for me. But nobody wants to sell their old stuff for as cheap as Chinese new products these days. Even if they do, the Chinese stuff comes with a warranty and a promise of support and refunds.

That's what worries me: at some point, manufacturing new stuff just gets so cheap that it outweighs buying used even for the most hardcore thrift shopper like me. I recently bought a nice looking pocketknife with a pretty wood handle for $3.49; in a thrift store you'd see a used one for maybe $10. I recently got a used angle grinder for $10, but it broke, leaving me wishing I had bought a new one from a local store for $14 (including disks and a 2-year warranty!)

The worst thing is that because of lower-quality manufacturing for decades, many used things have very little inherent value. When every particleboard table cost $25, a used one was worth maybe $7. But now that you can get a new particleboard table for $5, the same used one is worthless. The same goes for a billion other things, from calculators to drills to speakers. In the past, when cheap new things weren't available, the used low- and mid- quality versions of those things held value. Now, anything that's not high quality does not hold value. When you can buy a used calculator for $3 or a brand new one with a warranty for $4, nearly everyone will pick the new one.

TLDR: When cheap Chinese products are available, used low & mid quality products become worthless and only used high quality products hold value. This will cause enormous amounts of unnecessary waste to be produced.

That $50 angle grinder was also a $5-10 chinese one (unless it's from the 60's when stuff was made elsewhere), there was just more middle men and more markup. The internet just placed you 1-2 steps away from the chinese factory, whereas the hardware store in the 90's was maybe 6 steps away from the factory. It's a disappearing problem: soon the used ones will also those $14 angle grinders, so you can get a used one for $4 or a new one for $14.

It's hard to buy anything new today and expect it to last more than 5 years. This includes cars, tools, appliances, all kinds of electronics, furniture. You have to buy old if you want long term reliability. My rough rule of thumb is: If it was made before 1980 (maybe before 1990), it will probably last as long as you need it. If it was made after that, expect it to break.

Really depends on the manufacturer and target market. A 10 year old car Honda Civic for example is still cheap to maintain.

Generally if you are willing to pay 80’s prices inflation adjusted you can still get high quality appliances you just end up with the washing machine Apartment complexes use etc.

I really wonder with angle grinders, for example, how many are bought to do a one-off job and then set on a shelf for 20 years, versus being used daily until they break. Maybe Harbor Freight is just selling something appropriate for it's real customer base.

> This includes cars

Plenty of manufacturers give a 7 year warranty for new cars. In addition, there's no sign that new cars depreciate faster than older cars (when comparing current depreciation for historic depreciation). In markets where cars are driven for many, many years and kilometers (e.g. Finland), there's no evidence that new cars shouldn't be expected to last more than 5 years.

Seven years is not a long time for a car. My family's last car was kept for almost 30 years. My aunt has never bought more than one car in her entire life -- a toyota camry. Man, if you toss out your car after seven years, you will end up buying almost seven cars(!!!) in your lifetime. That's insane.

The parent made the claim that it's hard to buy a car and expect it to last more than 5 years, which is clearly wrong.

I think the key point you left out is Finland. Long drives, harsh winters, and corrosive salt do a number on cars. 5 years is a long time for a Finnish commuter. It's not very long if you typically use it for Sunday family trips to the ice cream shop in Southern California, however.

While this is applicable to a lot of things such as appliances and cheap furniture, I wouldn't apply it so broadly as a rule. Plus, many new things just haven't been around long enough to tell. 5 years is absurdly short for a car, most seem to last between 15 and 30. I have several working computers, cell phones, and game consoles between 5 and 20 years old.

The trend of making computers and phones nigh-unrepairable glass sandwiches is awful though, as soon as the battery or other major component is toast the device is practically worthless. It's infuriating how far backwards we've gone in that aspect.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com