2 Weeks with Ubuntu Linux on the Dell XPS 13 | Hacker News Reader

2 Weeks with Ubuntu Linux on the Dell XPS 13

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35 pointsdsego58 comments

On the desktop, I've had an extremely positive experience using Ubuntu for the past few years. Honestly, at this point I find it easily a better desktop experience than Windows or macOS. However, I've so far stuck to macOS for my laptops and iOS for my other devices mostly because I tend to need more reliability for these (and a bit of my own bias).

With how toy-ified iOS is and the progressively worse state (imo) of macOS-running hardware, I've started considering other options more seriously. Are there any tablet PCs that work well with Ubuntu?

I'm in a similar place, with Mint on a desktop and laptop for some time now. The real issue is never on the desktop: it always runs fine. However, the laptop seems to have developed driver issues over time, to the point where the trackpad requires special care and feeding... The little nooks and crannies of laptop drivers remain the single reason I think Linux is so hard to get right on laptops. The successful users I know all have Thinkpads.

Linux is the OS I need to reinstall every few months. It's like where Windows was during 7. I think a big reason is that if version 0.1.0 installs a config file, version 0.9.3 won't override it- even if it has better defaults.

I've found the surface book + https://github.com/jakeday/linux-surface

To work quite nicely, battery life is decent (6-8 hours with coding and web browsing usage).

I'd think the Surface Pro would be similar.

Fwiw, my 13" Dell Inspiron 7000 runs Ubuntu Mate 18.04 as flawless as one can ask for. The Mate installer handled all the drivers, as well. I didn't have to install a thing manually.

Touchpad works fine; haven't dealt with any palm rejection problems. Full disclosure, I have it docked most of the time. But, I've used the trackpad enough that I should have noticed any problems if they existed.

I know XPS is default answer for new Linux laptops, but this Inspiron 7000 has been great so far.

The one downside is battery life. It has a small battery, so I don't think it's going to work for people who require 8 hours of charge. I'm plugged in most of the time, so it's not been an issue in my case.

A really bad combination. I had more success with Asus machines than these xps. Few of the issues that you notice after regular use:

The fingerprint reader is not supported on Linux.

GPU is worse off than windows. Nvidia has horrible support, there is no auto mode to dynamically switch

Keyboard typing is laggy

Touchpad does not support Palm detection for accidental swiping while typing

Overall not satisfied with Linux on xps for such a premium price

Ubuntu 18.04 is pretty buggy on my Thinkpad P50, too (graphics problems, trackpad issues, poor battery life, no backlight adjustment, etc). And Gnome is just ridiculously slow compared to Windows and macOS. I’m still not sure there is a Linux laptop out there that just works.

That is unfortunate to hear :/

I was seriously considering ditching MacOS on my next laptop and pick up a thinkpad carbon x1 with Ubuntu 18.04. Really hoping this improves.

Be aware that Lenovo has removed an ACPI sleep state from the 6th generation Carbon X1 that is causing sleep issues on Linux. There is a workaround but it looks pretty gnarly.

AFAIK this is mandated by Microsoft for Windows compatibility. To support the latest s0i3 (hybrid sleep, like a smartphone) the machine is not allowed to support S3 (normal sleep)

TBF Linux does support s0i3,but not as well as Windows. On my X1 Carbon (2018) I had to disable a whole lot of stuff as well as do some kernel command-line fiddling. Once I did this, however, it was better than Windows.

I do boot into Windows on this laptop every month or so 'cos Windows Update. Each time the fans go crazy - I will say I never see the fans go like this in Linux. It's unbelievable that in 2018 just logging into a Windows box will make it go batshit insane and require multiple reboots before it settles down. It's these times I really appreciate apt/dnf/yum etc.

It's a standard ACPI feature to provide different tables for different operating systems. Computer makers could have enabled S3 for anything not microsoft.

Yeah agreed it's a weak excuse, but from memory it's the one Lenovo used on their forum when asked about the issue.

I think that the 18.04 release (being a Long-Term Support release) might have more conservative drivers than 17.10 has or 18.10 will have. So if you're on a laptop, you might get a better experience with one of the more "unstable" releases. At least this has been what I've observed for Dell XPS 15 support.

Exactly. Newer processors require stuff that isn't generally backported quickly.

I'm running Fedora 28, Rawhide kernel and a couple of tweaks on my X1 Carbon 2018 and it is awesome.

If buying a ThinkPad, definitely consider Fedora Workstation. I used Ubuntu for a few years before getting frustrated with some hardware+docking wake up issues, switched to Fedora and have not looked back.

Also I hear a lot of the Fedora devs themselves use ThinkPads, so there's that too.

Using Debian Mate on a T460 and I have to say I'm quite pleased. Sure Debian is stale, but as long as I can get a recent Firefox and Emacs, that's all the bleeding edge that I want.

If I had a new Thinkpad T480, I would probably choose Fedora. Unfortunately, as a home Linux user, I find that the best strategy is to avoid new hardware.

This is my current setup. Thinkpad T580 With Fedora Workstation.

It is the most flawless and "just works" experience I've ever had (yes, more than my macbook(s) which had annoying problems such as crashing when plugging in external monitors (even tho the monitors were made by Apple as well), crazy backlight bugs that would cause the laptop screen to suddenly go full brightness, which was physically painful when the room was pitch black, and many more).

I wish people wouldn't just default to Ubuntu 18.04. Fedora Workstation (28) runs laps around Ubuntu in terms of features and divers.

Been using Pop_OS on a T480S for a few months now and its been flawless.

I think that Ubuntu switching from the Unity Desktop to the Gnome Desktop in 17.10 is a real set back to its quality as a desktop and especially laptop OS and it will probably take until 20.04 at a minimum to really resolve this.

I won't argue about whether the change was right or wrong. What I will argue is that is was a poor choice to make the change so close to a new LTS release and they should have made the change over the first release after an LTS instead of last release before the LTS.

You can install tlp[1] to improve battery life significantly. It even supports setting the battery charge threshold on thinkpads.

[1] https://linrunner.de/en/tlp/docs/tlp-linux-advanced-power-ma...

The battery charge threshold is in the kernel now as of 4.17. TLP is still very much worth it though

>The battery charge threshold is in the kernel now as of 4.17

Interesting. I missed reading about this in the change log. I have 4.17 on Linux Mint and it's doing a pretty decent job (minus nvidia GPU)

> Touchpad does not support Palm detection for accidental swiping while typing

All large touchpads suffer from this under X11 / synaptics.

Synaptics has a PalmDetect setting, but I find it absolutely terrible.

The way I configure mine (XPS 15 9550) is by using the X11 config, which allows setting areas of the touchpad where you can't initiate a click or drag.

Here is my config for the XPS 15:

    Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "touchpad catchall"
        Option "AreaLeftEdge" "1700"
        Option "AreaRightEdge" "5100"
        Option "MaxDoubleTapTime" "130"
        Option "SingleTapTimeout" "130"
    EndSection

Any DragStart / MouseDown where (absolute X < AreaLeftEdge) or (absolute X > AreaRightEdge) will be ignored.

To figure out the min / max coordinates of your touchpad, and where you want the zones to start / end, run "sudo evtest | grep ABS_X", select your touchpad device number and tap along the X axis.

You can do the same with AreaTopEdge and Y coordinates if your palm is hitting the top of the touchpad.

I thought pretty much everyone used syndaemon for disabling the touchpad while typing. Does your OS not install that by default?

I find it horrendous.

Setting a static delay means that either you set it high and it'll feel incredibly sluggish when trying to move the cursor right after you type, and setting it low means that any pause while typing will cause palm interference.

My solution doesn't have any arbitrary delay, and I haven't fat-palmed at all since I've found the right settings.

>GPU is worse off than windows. Nvidia has horrible support, there is no auto mode to dynamically switch

XPS 13 has no NVidia GPU's, and never has. I believe it has had upgraded Intel GPU, but never anything from NVidia.

>Keyboard typing is laggy

No issues here. I do live chat on it for my job on a daily basis.

>Touchpad does not support Palm detection for accidental swiping while typing

I haven't had a single laptop from multiple brands that worked with palm detection in Linux, they're all really bad.

>Overall not satisfied with Linux on xps for such a premium price

I run encrypted uefi Arch Linux and straight out of the box wireless works, all media keys work, audio works, keyboard backlight works, touchpad works great, touchscreen is accurate and I draw with a stylus in GIMP, nvme is just as fast as Windows, with tlp I achieve nearly 10 hours battery life on moderate brightness with 6-7 on full brightness. I can't really complain much. It's the best Linux laptop I've ever owned.

>XPS 13 has no NVidia GPU's, and never has. I believe it has had upgraded Intel GPU, but never anything from NVidia.

I have an XPS 15 with Nvidia GPU and I assumed XPS 13 is just the smaller screen version.

Nvidia driver versions are a hit and miss on XPS 15. The latest 396 version doesn't even startup and I had to do a clean reinstall of mint.

And Gnome is a resource hog. I loved it but my XPS couldn't keep up with it's demands

I had a very positive time with the EU XPS 13 Developer Edition (and enhanced i7 touchscreen model which ran Ubuntu fine too) a few years ago.

At the time Dell only shipped the EU versions in 8 GB variants. I'm in the market for a new 13 or 14 inch machine and am split on a new MBP, Thinkpad or XPS 13.

Apple seem to have the best offering in terms of what causes me the least amount of annoyances with hardware/OS integration but don't offer a 32GB laptop. I also would prefer to run Linux natively. It's a tough decision given the ~2,000 GBP cost.

Edit: a couple of replies mention not liking the touchbar or keyboard in the new MBP line-up. I used a touchbar 13" model daily for ~6 months at my last full time and after a weeks usage grew to like the keyboard and love the touchpad. The touchbar was .. meh, even with BetterTouchTool to map my IDE shortcuts. Apple need to add haptic feedback to the touchbar IMO but I didn't find the lack of physical keys too hurtful to my workflow.

The latest generation of MBPs has a 32GB option.

And a horrible keyboard. So decidedly a mixed bag.

Not in a laptop, only in the folding desktop version. ;-)

And a toy light bar whose brightness and duration cannot be controlled (which sucks precious battery life) and is an insult to the "Pro" name. Are there any serious options available?

The battery life for the TouchBar MacBook Pro is almost identical to the non TouchBar version.

And I am actually really surprised by all of the hate for TouchBar. If you use it with a tool like BetterTouchTool (which allows you to define shortcut sequences) it's really quite powerful. Once Apple brings the Shortcuts app to OSX you can be sure people will find it useful.

You might see it as a toy if it's just an annoying way to trigger fn keystrokes.

But for people who use applications like Final Cut Pro X, you can actually do a lot with it.

Here's a course on it, for example :

https://www.macprovideo.com/tutorial/final-cut-pro-fasttrack...

There isn't a 13" UK version as far as I can see on the Apple site.

I could be mistaken, but I think it's only the 15" that offers a 32GB option.

Previous discussion (earlier today) : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17586411

It's better to try Ubuntu with pendrive http://tuxtweaks.com/2014/03/create-linux-mint-persistent-li...

I had a similar "last straw" moment this morning and put Ubuntu 18.04 on the Minecraft/Netflix notebook. Very smooth install and having Minecraft as a 1-click install in the Snap store was a pleasant surprise compared to having to install Oracle's Java and/or find a ppa with the right configuration of Minecraft junk.

Plus the LAN issues we were having with Minecraft have disappeared, and the trackpad response is better, and the fonts even seem crisper for some reason.

BTW this is a $200 notebook with 2GB of ram and a 32GB emmc for storage. It didn't have enough free space to keep Windows 10 updated (even after removing Chrome, Minecraft, and assorted OEM bloatware). Now with Ubuntu (minimal install plus Minecraft) there is 20GB free.

I have seen many people switch from MacOS to Linux nowadays. Not because MacOS is bad but because of the new line of Macbook Pro. Hackintosh is more difficult than it should be. Once Adobe products start to support linux, there will be an even better adoption.

I've seen this too. I think that the "just works" progress of Linux has been a factor here as well. Fedora especially has been rock-solid. I've helped several people set up new laptops, and Fedora is my go-to these days because it's "just works" is so good. Now that they have proprietary driver support built in through Gnome software, as well as some non-free stuff, the experience is great.

> Once Adobe products start to support linux, there will be an even better adoption.

Is this being considered at all? My wife is a professional designer that likes Krita but can't stand gimp/inkscape.

My idea for Linux compatibility: the ‘community’ picks two or three laptops a year, and works in common to ensure they ‘just work’ on a range of (documented) Linux distros. Focusing our limited resources around so few hardware configurations would surely help in ensuring full and complete support, and for people looking to buy for Linux they provide assurance ahead of time.

This is seems much more cohesive then I think actually exists. Generally the way it works is that I try to make things suport the hardware that I actually own. If a bunch of people come together and decide that they want to support one model, then that's great, but if it's not the model that I already have that I'm not going to contribute.

The XPS13 is garbage. Sure the screen looks cool but at the end of the day it’s still a Dell. The quality is miserable and the support when it breaks is abominable.

Get a thinkpad (x or t series) or Mac, you won’t regret it.

Note: Dell if you are reading this I desperately want you to succeed here and provide another viable laptop option.

Nonsense.

XPS 13 is a wonderful laptop and their support is fantastic for not having stores placed in every city across the country. I work with Dell Support on a weekly basis, and they're just as good as Lenovo. 2018 models have also fixed any and all coil whine that was apparent on some older XPS 13's.

It also works near flawlessly with almost any distro of Linux right out of the box, Lenovo's and Macs do not work nearly as well with Linux. I have a really hard time picking out issues with the XPS 13 other than normal failures at around the same failure rate as both Macs and Lenovo laptops.

I've been putting Gentoo and Xubuntu on ASUS gear for ages, great laptops for <$1000. Quality is good and cost is low enough it's an easy replacement compared to Thinkpad or Mac

I'm using an older Macbook Pro and an XPS-13 running Ubuntu these days. The XPS is fine; the trackpad isn't as good as the one on the Mac, nor is the UI as well done, but on the whole I have no complaints and certainly wouldn't classify it as "garbage".

No complaints about the build quality of my XPS13. Runs beautifully, too. Prior to that my Linux machine was a Thinkpad X60.

Anecdote: Lubuntu and Xubuntu have worked very well for me on a lower-end Dell Inspirion. I've had this same laptop for about 5 years now, and I think its trackpad is great.

I wonder why it is that linux distros having centralized package management is seen as a good thing, but the windows store is reviled by all

Linux informs you that an update is available. Windows doesn't care that you're in a call to a client, update all the things.

That was on a Windows 10 build from a year ago, not sure if things have improved.

Not the os updates, the application updates. And fwiw I use linux primarily and think it's overall much better; but I still think it's a bit curious.

Windows still doesn't care, it updates when it wants, even if you're in the middle of doing things. I was in the middle of my companies earnings report a few months ago and it popped up the "We're going to update in 5 minutes, please close everything" with no option to delay or cancel. It shut down and I missed a good 30 minutes while it was updating. Really good for productivity and work (/s).

I am now fully Linux except on my gaming PC at home which is rarely even turned on.

I can install any Repo i want and pull packages I want from there. Windows has a closed monopoly where you only have one choice, where I can use any Fedora/Ubuntu mirror I want (I can even make my own).

The Windows store has a single repository and it has fees and restrictions. On Linux, you can typically add many repositories to the package manager, so there's no lock-in.

On a distro like ubuntu the updates are basically just security and some bug fixes. Opening an application and finding the UI's been shuffled around doesn't happen often (firefox aside). The updates are also usually pretty small thanks to the package manager and the ability to dynamically link libraries, you can typically update a whole system and download will be about the same size as updating a typical windows app.

It's also truly centralized, so the OS updates come through the same channel as the app updates, there is one way to do things. Windows store is still not centralized, some apps will update themselves, some will through the store, some from windows update and some from click once, which still seems to be the only viable enterprise option (oh how I wish for a corporate package repo).

Sadly some of these issues are already starting to push into the linux world through things like docker and snap packages, where things like UI changes can be pushed onto users. There's also the current invasion of software that only (practically) statically compiles so installs/updates will become much more bloated.

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