Comment by jewbacca | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jewbacca | Hacker News Reader

I've always considered this bit of writing from 2006 to be Assange's (and Wikileaks') central thesis:

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"The non linear effects of leaks on unjust systems of governance

[...]

The more secretive or unjust an organization is, the more leaks induce fear and paranoia in its leadership and planning coterie. This must result in minimization of efficient internal communications mechanisms (an increase in cognitive "secrecy tax") and consequent system-wide cognitive decline resulting in decreased ability to hold onto power as the environment demands adaption."

https://web.archive.org/web/20071020051936id_/http://iq.org:...

https://cryptome.org/0002/ja-conspiracies.pdf

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I still believe that this will bear out in the long-run, and has already begun to bear out in smaller-scale cases, but it is becoming apparent that in many cases this is like a "the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent" situation, and has really barely begun.

As for Assange personally, I still kinda believe in him, though I recognize that is on shakier ground than it may once have been. After 8 uninterrupted years of however an honest and empathetic person might describe his conditions, I would not be surprised, nor would I particularly fault him for losing it a bit, and letting his personal situation (... being fucking personally targeted for destruction by an unfathomably powerful global-scale system of secretive injustice) compromise his personal pretence towards the objective neutrality on which his thesis's large-scale fruition is predicated.

John Young from Cryptome helped Wikileaks get started but then decided to distance himself from Assange and co.

Why was this?

https://www.cnet.com/news/wikileaks-estranged-co-founder-bec...

Fundamentally the difference was that Wikileaks was all about making money, to pay for Assange and co to go about their special way, living life as kings in their own special world. Plenty of charities operate this way but John Young thought it would be more of a collection of people working together on the task in hand, not a revenue generating operation.

John Young's Cryptome website costs hosting fees and, although people can donate, this is paid for out of pocket, no vast network of fundraisers needed, no 'bitcoin' needed, no deal with Visa/Mastercard/Paypal needed. It is down to earth and not inflated with an Assange sized, planet sized ego.

I know people have got to eat, however, I personally found that the money making ambitions for WikiLeaks left a bad taste in my mouth. Assange's little difficulties with women and some of the silly things he may say are okay to me, not everyone has a squeaky clean character but luckily most of us don't have people sharing gossip about us with the press. But making money out of other people by presenting a 'saintly' self on a mission to do great things 'if only the funds were available' is not how I like my freedom fighters to roll.

Furthermore, throughout this whole saga it has always been about him. Assange with the planet sized ego. In some ways further theatre and charades and time in jail is what his story 'needs' for Assange to get the 'martydom' that he 'needs'. Let the spectacle begin.

> Assange's little difficulties with women ... not everyone has a squeaky clean character

To be clear about his "little difficulties", he's been accused of intentionally breaking a condom he was using when having sex with one woman (both of them have stated that the condom broke) and continuing a sexual encounter with another person while refusing to use a condom. As the article states, he's escaped trial because he hid from Swedish authorities and they weren't able to have the case tried in a timely fashion.

I will think it's a failure of our justice system if Assange is prosecuted in the US for leaking information (especially if, as described by the article, it's by Sessions et al. as a precursor for a leaking crackdown) and not tried for the sexual assault case that he's actually been on the run from for years - because it means that anyone who's in a similar position to Assange can now get away with sexual assault, claim asylum for their political activities, and have the world ignore their "difficulties with women."

What is the evidence that happened?

You can find some of the relevant evidence summarized in English in the original UK ruling on the EAW:

https://www.aklagare.se/contentassets/cc904ed99288454586d860...

What is the evidence that these are the accusations, or what is the evidence that the accusations are true? I obviously don't know that the accusations are true. Swedish prosecutors think they have evidence of that. That's what I was hoping a court case would decide. I think the government should treat him as innocent until proven guilty, of course, like any civilized person, but like any civilized person I also think trials should happen.

If you're interested in evidence that these are the accusations, see e.g. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/Sex-accusers-bo... or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assange_v_Swedish_Prosecution_... or https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange... or http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-14/julian-assange-to-be-i... or really a Google search for 'assange condom'.

> Swedish prosecutors think they have evidence of that.

Some Swedish prosecutors, rather. The accusations were originally dropped, then picked back up by a more politically-oriented prosecutor. It was very, very iffy from the start.

I was not sure how to best describe the 'little difficulties', my personal opinion is that he was less than a perfect gentleman, but I was not there.

I do wonder how much his 'heroic freedom fighter' demeanour tied into his bedroom ambitions. Why be a groupie wanting to bed the lead singer of the band when you could become one of Assange's baby-mamas?

He wouldn't be the first male to have greedy desires regarding the ladies, but, had he read Che Guevera's Guerrilla Warfare, and, had 'freedom fighting' been his true ambition rather than a means to further his rock star ego, then he would have kept his little head to himself.

Although Che Guevera mansplains from a different era, he wrote about how that the true revolutionary - assumed to be male - needs to stay away from women until the revolution sought for is achieved. I know everyone seeks a partner - it is human nature to do so - and that 'behind every great man is a great woman', with Assange he should have known that there were basic 'operational security' risks in doing so. It takes months to work out if that lovely lady is narcissistic and likely to play the victim card in some police cell with a 'he said/she said' situation that can't be controlled.

Had there been one incident then you could imagine that she was just an attention seeking liar, to give him the benefit of the doubt. I remember being on this page with Mr Clinton, but, when the numbers add up and a pattern is revealed you do have to wonder.

"Rapist" is a pretty good term for it.

And yes, I think that the personality of wanting to be a famous and powerful man and is often correlated with the personality of wanting power over women at any cost. I wasn't there either, so I don't know if that's what happened here, but it certainly wouldn't be the first time those have lined up. However, I'm not sure that this is really about a "partner" - the accusers are two different women who had sex with him within weeks of each other, not someone who he was in a long-term relationship with who then went to the police.

(And yes, I do think that "rapist" is an appropriate term for Bill Clinton, too, but that doesn't seem particularly relevant.)

Assanges position at the embassy is similar to being in prison, so I wouldn't say he got away with repercussions.

My theory for this is simply maturity and age. John Young is now quite old (and was indeed of advanced age in 2005). I don't think he cares about going to cocktail parties, being known in rarefied social circles, getting laid by groupies, speaking to major news media outlets, or all of the other things that Assange engaged in before the assault allegations against him surfaced. He certainly never seems to have cared about puffing up his own ego.

John Young is a retired architect who lives a very quiet, non-public life and seems to have always wanted to keep it that way.

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