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Comment by omnimus | Hacker News Reader

Well advice from one of the freelance webdevs (http://remotehabits.com/interview/interview-with-john-a-full...) is to start to charging 10usd. He calls it reasonable pricing. I mean i live in quite poor country but 10usd is pretty hard wow. The great twist is that he works for YCombinator backed company as lead front-end dev. Way to go lol

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Oh boy. Please no one take that advice of charging 10/hr. Remote does not at all justify making < minimum wage

I agree, but I do like to play devil's advocate here (just for a bit). Say you live in Thailand, what is wrong with making less? Or at least, a little less? You can still participate in the local economy.

Because you are demeaning yourself as a professional. Rate should be tied to the value of the work.

To put it another way, would you want to work with someone who values your abilities to be equivalent to a guy making French fries?

I understand your point, but in the end, isn’t it just market forces at work? I lived in Cambodia for two years, and I definitely charges a lot less than what I do now I’m back in Europe.

It made sense for me: with two weeks of work I could live comfortably for two or three months, and I still charged way below Western market rates, so I had no problems finding clients. And it allowed me to be picky about the type of work I would accept.

What’s not to like?

You need to think about your retirement savings which you might not want to spend in Cambodia. Also maybe you want to buy stuff that costs the same everywhere, like an iPhone or a new laptop that's not garbage quality.

I mean if it's necessary to compete in the market, maybe it makes sense to lower your rates. But as long as you can charge the appropriate rate, you should.

When you're charging less you're still earning the same amount of money for your client. So everything you charge less is you making them rich.

Completely agree with this - most freelancers I know and guests on podcasts I listen to regret charging too little to begin.

Its actually recurring advice here that the customers who pay you the least are the most demanding.

Even in business, charging less is a sticky problem. It's next to impossible to raise your rates with a client base you've built up without alienating many of them. Because you've charged so low, you can't afford to drop any of them yet. Unfortunately, a lot of business can be through referral and they talk about rates too.

It can leave you in a hole that's next to impossible to get out of.

I'm happy I played devil's advocate. I never knew this!

I'm happy I'm learning this right after my graduation.

Awesome :) congratulations re. graduation!

A bit less, sure. But I assume that most people need enough to support their family.

How much do freelancers usually get in different countries/regions? Or on average in the US and Europe?

When I was still living in Finland (few months ago) the market rate was usually around 80-120 EUR/h => 90-140 USD/h.

I work remotely as a writer living in India. I charge the same rates as any writer living in the US. I haven't yet seen any client dispute my pricing.

I don't see why I should charge less for my skills just because of my geographical location.

Exactly.

Time zone can be somewhat of a filter if your client has a large team with daily standups.

Here in Denmark, the market rate is about 80-120 EUR/hour, so the same as Finland. I would speculate that across Scandinavia the rates are fairly similar.

$10 is the DAILY minimum wage where I live. Surely someone without experience could use this as a starter salary without feeling bad.

Minimum wage where you are is perhaps somewhat higher than minimum wage in many other parts of the World.

More than 80% of the World's population lives on less than $10 per DAY. If you live in one of those areas, and you can make that per hour, you can have a good life.

What's more, you're never going to be short of work, because people are going to look at you and realise you are the same skill-wise as the guy wanting $1k/day in London, so why not save some money and everybody is happy - even the $1k/day guy is happy because they are working for a client who values the work at that more than the client thinking "wait, I could get this done for less than a tenth of the price".

Over time (perhaps quite quickly once you've proven you can work well with clients in the EU and US), you can raise your rates, of course, and that's awesome for everybody.

It's just wise to not automatically presume that 10/hr is a bad rate for that individual in that circumstance - there's enough work going around for all of us that we can deal with the low-balling etc. from other countries.

Oh come on, that is massively out of context. The guy pretty much says it’s his first job. Look at the picture, he’s a kid. Good on him, he’s making it work. He’ll put his rate up when he’s ready.

And until then, if he’s getting real work and charging less then you then watch your backs, eh? Don’t get complacent. Don’t take it for granted. And don’t be miserable self-righteous assholes here.

First year of college, I started working remotely for $5 an hour. Ten years later, at the same company, I’m still remote, making a decent six figures. It’s fine to start small.

Yeah, at that point the lower rates account for the increased risk of hiring someone without experience. My first software job back in university was at McDonalds rates, but it paid off when, two years later, I was on (what was for the time and location) a decent entry-level professional salary while most of my classmates were unemployed due to the dotcom bust.

Minimum wage here is on average $17 / hour, across all industries. I say average because there is no law about minimum wage here in Denmark, but unions are very strong and almost all employees are covered by a collective agreement, which dictates a minimum hourly salary.

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