Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance | Hacker News Reader

Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance

wsj.com

33 pointsmudil54 comments

This thing is magnificent, a little rainbow-farting space ship, so obviously representative of the next step in the history of autos. - WSJ

Would make a good poster blurb

The Oatmeal is way ahead of the WSJ: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s

If only there was a way for the Oatmeal to enjoy his Tesla without making it sound like everyone else is a hillbilly.

If only there was a way for you to stop reading insults into the Oatmeal's love-letter.

Its "The Oatmeal's" general writing style that grates me. He always insults people who disagrees with him and portrays them in the most negative light possible.

Look, I have my interests, other people have their interests. I can tell you that Threadripper 1950x is a great CPU, and is a great computer that I just built. And I think most people would be cool with that.

But if I were to say that "AMD farts in the face of Intel and destroys the old way of building computers"... or other unnecessarily colorful language that demeans the "other side"... I'd hope that someone else on Hacker News would call me out for being unnecessarily insulting.

The comic / love letter, as you call it, directly insults any "car guy" on multiple levels. There's a word for that, and its called strawman arguments. Its preaching to the choir and overall is unhelpful for discourse.

Its certainly not unique to that comic. Its prevalent in "The Oatmeal's" writing style for years.

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Anyway, the WSJ review is quite good in comparison. It shows how you can heap praise upon a vehicle without insulting others.

Wow. So much for humor. You probably think Exploding Kittens is animal abuse. Also, you appear to have completely missed the point that "This thing is magnificent, a little rainbow-farting space ship, so obviously representative of the next step in the history of autos" is similar to the Oatmeal's writing... whether or not you like it.

There's a difference between having fun with someone, and making fun of someone. The Oatmeal consistently errs on the side of making fun of someone.

That's all I'm trying to point out. Its a bullying tactic that loses efficacy as people become aware of it. So awareness is important.

I took a test drive in a Tesla the other day (hang on what you do a seven seater ?! for families ? are you free now for a ... ok let's go)

It blew me away. The acceleration (awesome), the self parking bit (I laughed till a bit of pee came out)

Some things were immediately obvious (you just showed a guy walking in front of us as another car, the handling was ... ok), others were deflected (so how many drivers have tesla's autopilot killed ... got a frosty reply)

But this was a fully electric car. And i can find dozens of charge points (ok ok in London). The point is ... they are selling the next, the only step forward for cars.

It's all electric, or it's all on buses.

So comparisons with the price points of non-electric cars just don't matter in my book. It's like public meetings about setting up new coal power station. It's not even the right question.

Of course it's waaay too expensive for me - nissan leaf. that's more my price point.

It might be a good car, but not at that price tag.

If I had to spend 50+k$ for a car, I would definitely not go for a Tesla Model 3. I would go with a reliable BMW/Mercedes/Audi that is way more luxurious and offer more functionalities for the same price.

So far, the Tesla Model 3 is still for people that want to make a statement that they are part of the "green revolution" or for Elon Musk fans.

Even at 35k$ (before taxes), it is still pretty expensive for a car that will be very very basic. Look what you can get for that price tag with other car manufacturers.

I just bought an 2018 Audi A4 ($47k) and my wife just bought a Model 3 ($54k). I previously owned an S4 which (roughly $56k). I also test drove a few 4-series BMWs and few random Mercedes in the same price range.

TL;DR: I would take the Model 3 any day at that price. I have buyers remorse.

Drive feel:

The Model 3 is an absolute joy to drive and I would take it any day over either of my Audis and over any of the BMWs or Mercedes. Every gas car feels laggy now and they are kind of ruined for me. I drive my wife's car at every opportunity now even though I have a 3 week old Audi in my garage.

Autopilot makes gridlock traffic no longer a big deal. This is pretty huge and I hated driving my Audi long distance to Tahoe over July 4th weekend in traffic. I do NOT trust it with anything beyond gridlock traffic though. Not even for merges.

Interior:

The Model 3 seats are super comfy but the whole interior feels budget and I really hope you like minimalism because its extremely minimal and borderline cheap. BMW/Audi/Mercedes: I hope you like BUTTONS EVERYWHERE FOR EVERYTHING (I certainly don't). The interior feels much more premium than the Model 3 though.

Side note: Why does a tachometer still exist as a massive dial taking up most of your dash? I doubt 98% of people ever look at it.

The interface:

While significantly improved from my 2015 S4, the A4 UI is still an atrocity. Bluetooth is still awful and it auto plays whatever the hell happened to be running on my iPhone last. Lack of a touch screen (except BMW) is surprisingly frustrating now that I've used one.

The central display in the Model 3 is incredible and I love almost everything about it. Who needs bluetooth when you have Google Maps and high quality streaming audio over an incredible sounding sound system? I rarely even WANT to connect my phone.

Random:

The keyless unlock for the Model 3 is amazing as long as it actually works with your phone. My wife's Pixel XL works about 50% of the time and it makes it infuriating. PLEASE GIVE US A KEYFOB, TESLA

I can turn on the AC remotely on a hot day! The Model 3 is cold by the time we get in! There are so many delights with this car and that goes a long way.

BMW/Audi/Mercedes: I hope you like BUTTONS EVERYWHERE FOR EVERYTHING

That sounds awesome! It means I can do something without having to look away from the road. I don't have to actively context-switch whatever I'm thinking about to navigate on a touch panel. Whatever these guys are doing, it sounds so much better than dealing with glare and non-responsivity issues.

The context switch isn't bad (admittedly it is more). The touch panel has almost everything you would want to do commonly in only two taps.

Navigation:

The cognitive load is very high on both vehicles. Using dials and buttons on my Audi is really hard and the maps are loaded with random icons and its a bit harder to parse where I'm supposed to turn next.

The voice directions work really well on the Model 3 since I assume it just pipes it to Google Maps. My Audi is terrible unless it is "home" or something obvious it wont misunderstand.

AC/Heat:

I have to look down for both cars. In my Audi, the physical buttons for the fan have digital displays for the speed and temp. So I have to look and read anyway.

Music:

There are next/previous and volume buttons on the wheel in the Model 3. No different than my Audi. Tapping the giant screen is definitely easier than tapping on my tiny iPhone screen like I currently do in my Audi.

Thanks for your report! Looks like I might be overvaluing the fun factor of an Audi S4 compared to a Model 3.

I'm also wondering if the feel of an electrical engine is a personal thing? I have heard from one of my friend owning a Motel 3 that they are not a huge fan of the Electrical feel compared to a Manual gas car.

I definitely miss the sound of the engine. It is incredibly satisfying. But the feeling of instantly being thrown back into your seat and have buttery smooth acceleration the whole way (no gear shifting) feels amazing.

My S4 was definitely fast and I had a great time driving it, but the feel of the Model 3 is much more satisfying. It feels like a missile. Everyone who we have let drive it or let sit in it has been shocked.

I'm sure there is a personal preference (my coworker will never give up a gas engine) but I think the majority who drive it and slam on the accelerator will probably agree.

The issue is also that most of the automatic gearboxes on gas cars are garbage and are responsible for that lagging feeling when you want to accelerate.

If you drive a fully manual car, you are already way closer to a real acceleration.

That being said a smooth acceleration without the downtime needed for a gear shift must be quite an experience. I need to try that.

I have always driven manual cars for that reason. But when we got a Spark EV (the least possible electric car) my wife and I had to argue about who got to drive it. Even a crisp shifting manual with a lively engine feels sluggish and unresponsive compared to electric drive. It's like using an old budget phone with a resistive touch screen compared to using an iPad. Both sort of do the same thing, but one makes you happy and one makes you sad.

If you're the kind of person who drives a manual by choice I have a feeling you won't be sold on it. If you're a lover of traditional cars and their feel, then it'll be a culture shock.

The Model 3 doesn't have to be everything to everybody though! (Just to most people if they want to succeed)

Give it a shot though, you may be surprised. Hopefully you can actually find one to test drive.

have you driven any recent bmw with an automatic? the zf 8 transmissions are really nice and faster than the manual versions. dct equipped cars have also been faster than the manual versions for years. the only reason to drive a manual anymore is because you like shifting.

DCT Ford Focus was utter garbage for years. The only people who like that car (ie: me) are the people who got the manual version.

It probably was the poor low-end torque of their Ecoboost engine. Even in manual, I have to rev the engine high to keep 1st gear responsive. But the DCT gearbox doesn't allow that kind of slippage, its too quick for that.

There are definitely warts in DCT, at least in Ford's implementation. I like the idea of an automatic dry clutch, so hopefully Ford improves it. But alas, Ford has stopped selling sedans in the USA so I guess it doesn't matter.

> The keyless unlock for the Model 3 is amazing as long as it actually works with your phone. My wife's Pixel XL works about 50% of the time and it makes it infuriating. PLEASE GIVE US A KEYFOB, TESLA

Wait, really? If your phone is broken or out of batteries, are you locked out of the car?

No, it comes with two credit card "keys" that you keep in your wallet. They are RFID and you brush them next to the door or center console to unlock and start. Think of them like traditional manual keys.

Ah, gotcha. That makes a lot more sense.

You also get 2 RFID cards that can open/start the car.

How do you afford that?

I'm in my late 30s, worked in the tech industry since 1998, have no student debt (I didn't go to college), and married into a home :)

Lucky...

>> So far, the Tesla Model 3 is still for people that want to make a statement that they are part of the "green revolution" or for Elon Musk fans.

Not true. Save for long-haul drives (> 250-300 mile trips), the daily experience of driving a Tesla is objectively superior in every way to every gas car I've driven. It has nothing to do with image or idol worship and everything to do with the daily experience of driving it.

I also prefer it for long-haul drives, but I have a 4-year-old and taking a 25 minute break every 3 hours works well for us. If you're purely in a hurry, a gas car will refuel much faster (but if I'm in a hurry, I'm flying, not long-haul driving).

> reliable BMW

That's a tall order.

Depends on what you value. I value fun driving over nice finishes, so I'd pick the Model 3.

But is it though ? for 50+k$ I can think of a couple cars that I think are way more fun to drive than a middle class Model 3. (we are not talking Model S here)

For example an Audi S4/S5, or for a bit cheaper, a fully jacked up VW Golf R.

The whole value of the model 3, is the brand name and what it projects I think.

Have you ever driven a Tesla? It's really not comparable to any ICE car below hybrid supercar level. Having no perceptible throttle lag plus crazy torque really puts it in a class of its own in terms of fun. It has nothing to do with brand name.

I was a passenger to a Tesla (Both model S and 3) and drove an Audi S4/S5 and a Golf R.

While I agree that the "feel" is different between gas and electric, I think you are overestimating what the Model 3 can do.

To come back to my examples, Any of the Audi S4/S5 [1] or Golf R will get 0-60 faster than all the Tesla Model 3, except the performance one [2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_S5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_S4

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_3#Specifications

So you haven't driven one.

Indeed. Does that mean that I cannot compare specification numbers?

You can, though the typical specification numbers do not cover what the Model 3 is good at for me.

I own a Model 3, and the perceptually instant throttle response and the lack of gear changes is what makes it 'funner' than the competitors for me to drive.

We're talking about how it feels to drive one so no.

Come back when you've taken a test drive. They're free.

Don't both the Audi and the Golf make a loud, embarrassing noise while doing it? I call it the "Look at me, I'm an asshole!" sound. For many people, that sound plays a significant role in the driving experience. Some like it, some don't.

I've driven a Tesla Model 3, Volt, and Bolt. I prefer the latter two. Not as aggressive with the acceleration as the Tesla, but still quite zippy compared to ICEs. Moreover, the internal furnishings on the Chevys (and even in the Nissan Leaf) are so much more comfortable it's embarrassing (to Tesla) that its flagship mass model car being outperformed by cars several tens of thousands of dollars cheaper.

So you bought a Bolt, right? It's selling about 1/6 as many cars as the Model 3 in recent months.

The whole value of the model 3, is the brand name and what it projects I think.

You dont think the flood of critical acclaim counts for anything?

I have seen very positive critics and some negative ones.

I fully agree that it is a good car, the whole discussion here is about the price tag, and if it is worth it in comparison of what a traditional ICE car can offer.

I think it is debatable, and as it is very often the case in the car industry, it is a lot about what image you want to project as an owner of the car.

Furthermore journalists do not escape the brand name effect. A lot of the critics were already convinced Tesla fans.

I disagree. If it was really $35k it would be an amazing buy.

> I have borrowed a new 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance ($78,000, as tested)

I'm actually rooting for Tesla, but wasn't the Model 3 supposed to be affordable for the masses?

$78K isn't "for the masses". The incumbents aren't going to be sweating very much at that price.

$78k is their most expensive version. The cheapest Model 3 you can get now is RWD + premium interior (no standard interior offered yet) + long range battery = $49k. Tesla still says that base version should come at $35k some time next year.

A performance model isn't for the masses.

Compare it to a BMW 3 series. The BMW M3 is a lot more money and isn't for the people that go for the 328i version.

Yeah but the BMW i3 is a direct competitor. And it costs $50k and is a much better car than the Tesla model 3.

They’re producing the most expensive (read: profitable) versions first. I don’t understand why so many people are upset about this. As production increases and they fulfill reservations from people who want to spend more, cheaper versions will become available.

I'm not upset, but Musk probably is.

The longer he concedes the $30K-$40K range, the harder it's going to be for Tesla.

Toyota Prii used to be $40K. The same model is now around $28K.

GM is moving quite a few Chevy Volts in the $35K-$incentive range. The volume is significant enough that GM have a not insignificant probability of losing their incentive qualification this year.

Every one of those cars sold is a potential Model 3 customer who is out of circulation for the next 5 years or so.

According to insideevs.com, the Volt is selling about 1,300 cars/month this year, and the Bolt is about the same, so 2,600 cars/month total. The Model 3’s average this year is 4,000/month, and that’s dragged down by slow production in the first few months of the year. They’re likely at 12,000/month by now and are likely to hit 20,000/month before too much longer. They still have nearly half a million reservations. I don’t think they’re too worried about losing a significant number of sales to GM.

"Toyota Prii used to be $40K"

I don't think so. The first Prius available in the US, in 2000, was $20K. They've started in the mid-$20s for years.

I am echoing that feeling - Musk was touting Model 3 being a mass produced affordable long range (200+ miles) mainstream EV, but at $78k price tag, it's far from mainstream. Unless they can bring the cost down to the $30k price tag, I bet it won't sell as much as Musk hoped for. Granted Dan Neil tested the fully loaded performance version, the base version of Model 3 still hovering over $50k as far as we can see it producing right now.

All other manufacturers are catching up though, hopefully the battery cost reduction due to economy of scale will eventually allow Tesla to price it to be $30k, but I don't think it will happen before 2020 (assuming Tesla Motors is still around).

The base Model 3 hasn't shipped yet. However, if you go by Tesla's previous product launch history, the $35k base model will ship about 3 seconds after Tesla runs short of demand for the more expensive versions.

This is the Performance model. The $35K base model hasn't shipped yet.

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