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Comment by GordonS | Hacker News Reader

I've actually been working a 4-day week for the past 2.5 years now, working 30 hours a week instead of 37.5.

My employer has got the better end of the deal by far - I'm as productive as I was working a 5-day week, but had to take a 20% pay cut. Still, it works for me, giving me extra time for family and side projects.

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I negotiated this with previous employers. I do consulting work now and I've negotiated this with myself as well :)

I think I'm more productive this way, because, after a 3-day weekend I generally have a fresh perspective and feel like I'm looking at the same tasks with new enthusiasm. When I worked 5 day weeks, even interesting tasks became drudgery and I'd stare at the clock continuously even when I wasn't working a strict 'clock-in' style job.

Someone mentioned earlier - it's Wednesday you should take off, so you only work 2 days in a row :)

Or at least work from home that day.

Can confirm. I have this schedule at my job now. It is amazing. I get all my grocery shopping and various errands done Wednesday morning when everyone else is at work, and have more time on the weekends. I highly recommend people trying it out if they get the chance.

But then I can't go on long-weekend trips

So having a flexibility is best then.

Statutory holidays tend to fall on Monday’s where I am - if you don’t work that day you don’t get to be paid for them.

Really? Where I am they're legally required to factor it in. So if you're working Tue-Fri for instance you get a quarter day holiday or something ... there's a few other nuances to it - pension entitlements and the like and it's a bit of a headache for payroll but that's what they're paid to do!

It isn’t as bad as I thought, 4 out of 11 are on Monday, Easter Friday and the rest wonder about. https://www.govt.nz/browse/work/public-holidays-and-work/pub...

I used to work from home every Tuesday. Couldn't do Weds because we had our team meeting on that day. Have to say though it really took the edge off Mondays and made the remainder of the week a breeze!

Yeah. I worked a 3-day week for 6-7 years, and overall it worked really well for both my employer (who got a more productive employee) and me.

From my side, the biggest drawback was that it was a sort of golden handcuffs - I almost certainly stayed there longer than I otherwise would have because getting an equivalent setup elsewhere would have such a pain.

My impression was that the biggest drawback on my employer's side (after hashing out the initial bureaucracy/paperwork) was my more limited availability for meetings.

> I almost certainly stayed there longer than I otherwise would have because getting an equivalent setup elsewhere would have such a pain.

Would you consider freelancing? It usually affords more flexible working hours.

As the saying goes, when you work for yourself, while in theory you can "work your own hours", in practise what generally happens (at least initially) is you work all the hours.

This is pretty interesting. Did you feel overworked working 37.5 hours?

I spend more than 40 hours a week at work, but I actually work less than that whole time, because I have to wait for certain processes, or certain people, filling the gaps with activities like reading HN (as in right now).

Sometimes, but largely no, and I (mainly) enjoy my work too. But I now have a young family, and was feeling like I didn't have enough time for them or my side projects.

That's really where the productivity gains of the next 20 years will be: free employees from the tyranny of workplace attendance, so that they will not resent these gaps and actually concentrate on end-product.

The need for attendance is coordination.

I worked remotely for 3 years in a high-profile company. Being remote helps control your time better. Coordinating anything with other people takes more effort, though, because you can't just walk around, see if somebody is busy, or out for a coffee, etc.

This is definitely solvable with technology, and will increasingly be solved.

There's also economy in employees providing their own computers, internet connectivity, and (most importantly) office space.

I've worked a variety of schedules in my time. When I'm doing around 30 hours a week - whether it was from 6 hour days or from 4 days a week - there is so much more time to get things done during the week. I no longer feel rushed in general. I sleep better and wind up eating better. I can plan doctor appointments outside of work hours. The difference isnt so much being overworked, but reasonably being able do do things in life.

The only time I really felt overworked was while working 4 ten-hour days every week. I had zero time and needed one day of relaxation to make up for it, so the day was wasted nonetheless. I'll aslo mention that slews of people aren't lucky enough to do anything but work-related things during work. This is especially true if doing a low-paying job, even if there is downtime. "If you have time to talk, you have time to clean". Looking busy enough to earn your keep is a major theme to many jobs.

The next best schedule was weirdly retail, though. Around 40 hours per week, but I usually only worked 2-3 days in a row before having a day off, plus I got every other weekend off. Downside was working holidays - it was a pharmacy, after all. It just wasn't as productive as having 30-hour workweeks.

When you are waiting for certain processes, you are in work. You are unavailable for other activities such as gardening, picking up the kids from school or meeting friends. Well strictly speaking anyway ... but even if you can wangle your way to these things you're still on the hook for work and if something comes up you have to respond. This is all billable time IMO.

The CEO of this company also said that he wished we could move to productivity based pay and that he thought this would be better for women because when they come back to work from having children they work less hours but in his opinion often still contributed the same as someone working full time.

> often still contributed the same as someone working full time.

Sounds like they are due a rise.

Is it something easily negotiable in big tech companies?

I'm in the UK, and was working for a medium-sized Norwegian-based company that has since been gobbled up by an enormous Indian outsourcing company. I'm not sure how easy it would be to negotiate at the new company, but at the time all I had to do was ask. I also doubt it would have been quite so easy at most companies in the UK.

In the UK, employers are required by law to consider requests of flexible time arrangements like yours. They can refuse it, of course, but they have to do it in a reasonable manner and can be held accountable to a tribunal.

Legally, yes, but realistically I just can't see it being so easy in most companies. I'd like to think I was being too cynical though!

  I just can't see it being so easy in most companies.

At my employer, there are more new mothers working 2-3 days a week in the HR department than in any other department in the company - so making it easy is in their interests :)

My ex-wife went to a 4-day workweek (with longer hours per day) for a few years, when our kids were smaller. A friend of mine did the same for a bit (albeit, to be fair, in a pretty small company).

I'm sure there are plenty of people who were refused the chance (some companies can be atrociously dickensian even today...); but on average, flexible arrangements are less uncommon than you might think.

Good point, I was forgetting that not everyone may have the luxury that I had of dropping 20% of my salary without any real problem.

https://www.tssa.org.uk/en/Your-union/your-workplace/employm...

a similar arrangement is of great interest to me.

I've found one or two resources online [0] that discusses how to set up an arrangement like this, as it obviously requires some delicacy and evidence of competence, etc.

I am quite junior in the industry, but I am working in the direction of an official four-day work week.

I wonder if you might be able to share some resources that were useful to you, in working in this direction.

Thanks, /u/GordonS!

[0] https://codewithoutrules.com/saneworkweek/

I'd love to help, but honestly, the only resource I used was the company's 'employee handbook'! All I did was ask HR and my Norwegian manager if it was OK, and they said 'no problem!'.

There are 3 factors I think made it so easy for me:

1. I'd been with the company a long time, had a senior architect role, and at the time there had been something of an employee exodus - I think they were a bit afraid of losing me at an important time in various customer projects, and wanted to keep me happy!

2. The company was Norwegian, and the Norwegians are famously liberal on employee welfare

3. In the UK, employers legally must seriously consider requests for part-time working

Thanks for this extra information! It makes sense.

I'm in the US - there's a trend to over-work here, but I'm already comfortable pushing against that.

Now, I just have to get really really good at delivering value.

Then figure out some unique work arrangements!

Thanks again!

Depends on the company culture. I tried recently negotiating something like this, but they wouldn't even listen to me. I decided to quit.

Depends on the workplace culture.

Some places you can't negotiate down to 40 hours a week. Those places you quit.

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