Making an emperor bed
middleendian.com
middleendian.com
Bless this mindset. The internet would be a lot less interesting without the makers and their write-ups.
The 'The I'm pretty sure I can make this better(or cheaper) myself... even if there is an off the shelf version done by dedicated professionals.'
It's not surprising, as there's a lot of information asymmetry in the bed market. Customers don't have a good understanding of internals, and manufacturers deliberately augment confusion by producing under tons of sub-brands and models. Furthermore, at least in the US, sells are carried on a 1-by-1 basis where the salesman tries to extract buyer's reserve price.
I've spent a few years optimizing the core objects in my life, and my bed is for obvious reasons on the top of the list. To cut a long story short, I tested dozens of beds, bought a high end nordic bed (Hästens) and a natural latex one. Both were good. But, like the OP, I've eventually settled on a custom design. A very different one, though.
IMHO, the most healthy option is a thin soft core on top of a hard surface. I also prioritized natural and washable materials. I ended up with a pad made of felt wood panels on top of a modular wooden base. A huge unintended bonus of this design is how easy it is to pack and move around. I can disassemble and carry my bed effortlessly. It's also pretty cheap and durable. And I can disassemble it and put each pad in my washing machine!
A good heuristic is that most high quality items are custom made niche things. Either made by you or, usually, by specialized artisans or engineers. I've seen the internals of some beds costing a few grand. Not pretty. Laughable quality compared to the carefully felted panels I commissioned from a great mill. Same applies to industrial tees vs loopwheeled ones, or cheap plastic coats vs ventile. In the PC world, an equivalent would be some bad quality box with horrible thermal paste and mediocre cooling vs a custom Calyos build.
Mattresses are something we do totally wrong. We could have much more ergonomic designs that were also affordable, washable, less bulky and recyclable.
My girlfriend and I both find it very comfortable, and all the guests I've had also like it.
What do you think? Are there any hidden risks here that I'm not seeing, or reasons to evaluate the mattress on factors other than comfort? E.x. potential health risks (back problems???)
Thanks!
I don't like foams too much because they tend to release VOCs. But I reckon that a boat might be more humid than a regular home, so it might be tricky to get other materials to work well except wool, horsehair or kapok.
Perhaps you could find a Hästens shop near you, walk there and try one of their 8 cm horsehair toppers (TM8) without a bed. Don't buy it. It's a good product but really insanely overpriced. It will give you a good idea of how a thin custom wool mattress will feel, though. These will compress a bit more than foam, but they also breathe more which might be an advantage during warm weather.
Are you Flemish or Dutch? If so, there should be a few shops close to you.
And yes, boats are generally more humid than most homes - especially when left alone, they get extremely humid.
And yes, I am Dutch, I guess you could tell by my username :) I'll have to check out a Hastens sometime.
Else, if you are a back or tummy sleeper and it's squishy, you should try to switch to something more firm.
If what I suggested is too radical, try natural latex, which is quite firm.
A good entry point to the (pretty lacking) sleep ergonomics literature is:
Thanks a ton!
I also found it key to use a small buckwheat pillow.
If you side sleep, a very good alternative and cheap setup is a buckwheat mattress.
I'm quite light (~75 kg) so heavier people should probably have a few extra cm. Wool compresses a lot and requires periodic shaking to keep shape.
Since it's too late for you to edit, can you confirm if my guess is right that you meant "felt wool panels"?
I mean, I don't mean to shit on the article. The article itself is awesome, and I love taking this hacker mindset to other aspects of our lives. And writing a good article about it flexes a different, valuable skill. But if I ordered a mattress from a company and got this, I'd be (justifiably) upset.
See, I just don't think this is true. When you get something custom, you get to tune a lot more parameters than when you buy COTS, and if you know exactly what you want, and if that is different from what is generally available, that can be super valuable.
But usually, the more custom a thing is, the more likely it is to have quality issues. When you want a one-off, you usually pay either in terms of more money or worse quality control (often, as in the case of rare cars, both)
I mean, it can still be totally worth it, but if you buy a hand-built Ferarri because you think it will be more reliable than a mass-produced Toyota, you are likely going to be disappointed. (I mean, a hand built supercar has a lot of qualities... reliability tends to not be one of them.)
if I make a mattress, or a mug, or a shirt, or a skateboard for my own use and it turns out badly - i've learned something and probably enjoyed myself.
Hahaha. Ahem. Hahahahaha
Source: am dedicated professional
That would require a write-up.
I think I looked into it recently and we spent something like $700 on materials.
But then you just put down the first blanket, lay down a layer of the batting (I don't remember for sure, but I think it maybe came in queen size bats already from where we bought it), and then repeat.
We stitched around the outsize with yarn using a baseball-style stitch to keep everything sort of fixed in place.
Here's a picture: https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T03KPRY1A-FBT1180P5/wool_b...
Is it propped on anything?
As far as heat, we're of the opinion that wool is basically the ideal material. It is breathable, but it matches your body temperature and maintains it pretty well. It wicks the moisture away from you really well.
I don't know how exactly to compare it to other mattresses, but we keep our house at ~60F in the winter and we haven't been running AC in the summers, so our house has been up around 90F with high humidity. It is very comfortable across that whole spectrum.
If you've ever had a pair of high quality wool socks, it's kind of like that. They keep you warm in the winter and keep your feet comfortable and dry in the summer.
I sleep just in my boxers, but we put another italian officers blanket and a thick quilt on our bed to keep things toasty.
Everyone is different, but I can’t imagine anything remotely comfortable about sleeping in 90° heat with high humidity. Having recently had to spend a few weeks “sleeping” (more like constant restlessness) in a bedroom in the lower 80s, that just sounds like hell.
Today its about 65F, which is quite pleasant. I've found it makes me appreciate these days more.
Also it seems only marginally larger than a King mattress.
Edit: On further examination, I think the lumpy picture may be of the bottom of the mattress. Which makes more sense.
Edit 2: Or maybe not. From the article: "On top I would put 2" of buckling column gel, which is a squishy material similar to a bottomless rubber ice cube tray." So I guess all that lumpiness is in fact the top.
Regarding the size, yeah I did realize that when I finished, but it's still visibly larger than a king in person. If I were doing it from scratch knowing that I know now I'd probably do 8x8 and then I wouldn't have had to cut the buckling column gel and it would be even more comical.
Edit: Regarding the size again, I already knew the Queen sized mattress was slightly too short for bed habits even though I am not 80" tall, and the King is the same height. The California King is the full 7' tall but 6' is slightly less than my wingspan and I wanted that to be covered.
I think this is great. A mattress is something we spend loads of time (some of it quite fun) on top of. So why not research and build your own. Excellent craftsmanship and a great write up.
It's a fine temperature in the summer and nicely insulating in the winter, and it was fairly inexpensive too ($140 for two 100x200x12cm slabs of high quality foam.)
Has anyone else tried this simple approach to DIY mattress building? Any thoughts on why (or why not) to just use plain foam?
[edit] The reason why I ask is because maybe there are hidden factors I haven't considered. Maybe there's a risk of back pain, or less deep sleep, or something I haven't considered. Perhaps the most comfortable mattress isn't always the best for you. I figured if there's anywhere I'd find a subject matter expert, it'd be here :)
And of course the other things I mentioned like support and cooling.
25kg/m3 density, 4kPa compressive strength, 70 euros per piece.
I didn't notice any smell with any of the foam I bought. The only issue I ran into was one piece of foam not expanding properly - it only expanded to about 8cm thickness, not 12 as advertised.
"how his bed works and can do any repair he wishes". How beds work is not hard and mattresses are not for repairing.
The most important thing though, is that you have fun building things, so who am I to judge.
p.s. There must be a name for the linguistic construction: "Not to criticize, but".
I guess what I'm trying to say is that despite the lack of professional finish around the edges, this bed is more supportive of my body than any I've been on. To describe it in more detail it's like lying on a firm surface that conforms to your body.
If there is a name, I don’t know it.
I briefly considered using the gel without the encasement but that wouldn't be sanitary and would be visually jarring to guests who came across the bed.
Here in the US, we were able to find a store here in Austin (Austin Natural Mattress) that helped us find a solution with three separate layers that can be replaced as necessary, and design the bed to our exact requirements. This is the closest we've ever found to our beloved German 2m*2m bed, and since each side under the top mattress cover can be replaced as necessary, we each get to choose how hard or soft we like our side, or how cool or warm we like our side.
Given our recent experience, I would never again buy a bed that did not let us choose individually how we want our side of the bed to be.
FWIW, you can achieve a similar setup using two regular Twin XL mattresses to form a King.
After spending a good amount of time traveling and mostly using comparably 'hard' surfaces to sleep on, years ago I decided to make myself a rather thin Futon to sleep on.
Buying one made from natural materials would have cost me (pre-University) too much, so I checked how to do this on a budget:
I ended up buying a thin sheet of coconut fibre as well as some kilograms of untreated wool (which I laborously cleaned) off eBay and an insulation material called Thermo Hemp off an ecological construction store. I layered them Hemp - Wool - Coco - Wool - Hemp. Then I bought a large sheet and sewed it around, making some passes through a grid in the middle to keep stuff in place. (Total cost ~150eu, Queen size)
The sleep experience was great - my girlfriend at the time thought it was way too hard but for me it was perfect. However, over time the materials compressed a bit and after about two years I had to put something soft below to make it good again. I should have puffed it up every once in a while to prevent that from happening and perhaps chosen the layers a bit thicker.
Sleeping in bedding of your own making is great and you learn a lot in the process!
How about plain old-fashioned sewing?
> I decided to go with a 7" layer of latex foam as a base as it is form-fitting and relatively cool
This got me thinking; it shouldn't be too hard to add some thermoregulation to a mattress, with a cooling/heating system, and could provide a nice experience. Anyone has any experience with thermoregulated beds? Does they even exist?
The closest I can think of is that stargate episode (with the Tollan people): https://peertube.xyz/videos/watch/965b521a-ee29-41fd-9e96-ea...
My knowledge of thermoregulation is very minimal so I have no insight there beyond these materials feeling cool to me.
Anyone know if there's an inexpensive way to cool a mattress? I found the "ChiliPad" for US$450, with discount codes taking that to $336, which is still way more expensive than any heating pads.
Everything else I've found just seems to be mattress pads with cooling fabrics, which just feel cool to the touch and don't actually cool you down.
I would expect waterbeds to be easier to regulate as well, as I imagine they have a higher thermal conductivity. This could allow to place the cooling apparatus underneath, and make it something like a regular fridge radiator.
Actually, I found a few commercial products for the first idea while researching the second, among which a "mycoolbuddy" mesh that seems to retail for around $60. To be fair, cooling is always a lot harder than heating, courtesy of thermodynamics.
edit: seems like BedJet does it trough air cooling (~$100), which is interesting as well (and they made a fun marketing video, btw).
I dunno if you've ever slept on a waterbed, but you probably would not want to have a cooling system. The large heat capacity of water means that they act like a giant heat sink, they're actually pretty cold as is. It's the same reason a pool full of water at room temperature feels cold when you jump in.
It's a super chintzy product, not well made at all, but I am unaware of any substitute for it at any price or quality.
Go for the gusto at your own peril. There are probably compromises most customers enjoy without noticing them in smaller mattresses.
I'd be wary of that, since someone of enough stature, could squish the gel down enough and feel the plastic ends, which wouldn't be too comfortable.
That being said it inspires me to build yet an even more gigantic bed in the future.
An encasement that made those lines invisible might be too thick and negate the benefits of using the gel. When the fitted sheet is over the mattress, you cannot see the lines.
Some companies (even "traditional" mattress companies like Jordan's Furniture) will cut down mattresses from standard mattresses but they don't seem to build them up. I considered it myself but it's a lot of energy and I'm just glad it's done.
Fun writeup about something I'd honestly never considered DIYing, though I'm familiar with (and heartily approve of) the materials.
These guys will make you any size mattress you like: https://www.originalmattress.com/custom-size
Another option: https://www.selectabed.com/oversized-king-ultrabed-mattress/
It wasn't so much price (although the fact that selectabed asks you to call for a quote suggests they're fairly pricey), it was that once I researched mattress materials, I was pretty set on having buckling column gel as the top layer.
Nothing beats plain wooden planks + 3-4 woolen blankets on top.
Made the move to sleeping on harder surfaces about 15 years ago and never looked back - now occasional sleepovers at hotels leave me tired.
How big of a bed do you really need? (even if "you" is two people).
I could say I like the size because it's beyond my wingspan and however low the pillows end up in practice, my feet never overhang the bed. And that is true and is a reason I like it. But I definitely like the size because it's ridiculous. On the other hand if this bed lasts me longer than a standard mattress then it will cancel out anyway, especially since I know how to replace individual components if they fail.
Regarding waste, I was mostly upset at having to throw out the foam and fabric from the mattress toppers that the bucking column gel came inside. Everything else at least contributed to the bed. I was unable to convince them to just send me the gel. So they shipped me gel wrapped in waste. I talked to a local shelter but they can't accept pre-opened bedding due to health and safety concerns, so I had to throw out a ton of useless junk.
I have some leftover gel (by design based on the sizes of the sheets) but I've given some to a friend and plan to use more for a backpack.
This got a hearty chuckle out of me, nice work.
An absolutely cool project though.
Some people asked me how much it would cost to make them one when they saw it but they weren't super serious. I don't think anyone would pay me how much I'd charge them to make one the same way, especially with no warranty!