I think by taking the guitar far away you are implying possibility of faster than light communication, which is thought to be not possible, so his links address that? Hard for me to understand so I'm just saying my thoughts out loud to get clarified, thanks
That state is induced at the moment the guitars share "locality" because entanglement requires locality for initialization of polarization.
So then, we say we are as yet unaware of the qualities of the polarization we, ourselves, induced. Very mysterious.
So spooky, yes? We do not measure, because we choose not to, so we do not yet know.
Even if we prevent ourselves from having the capacity to measure, the results hold true, but so what? And so what, if we ask others to do the same. Imagine that we ask two waiters to tape two coins together in the kitchen, flip the linked coins, peel the coins apart while preserving the outcome of the coin flip, then take one coin to your table, and one to mine. Now I know which side of the coin you are looking at, without walking over to your table. So what. Nothing about this claims transmit information superluminously.
In reality, with instrumentation, carrier signals relay an electromagnetic transmission in such a way that one cannot peek or tamper (the waiters can't change the coin flip, we cannot hear the ringing guitar), but this does not invalidate the premise of the analog. For the purposes of the analogous guitar example, we say that our couriers (electromagnetism itself) are prevented from touching or listening to the ringing guitars, or disclosing what they might sense.
With the guitars, we say the guitars move away from the place where they were entangled. We'll say that our instrumentation rang the guitars at the grand canyon. Our couriers then transported the guitars to you, at the top of the Empire State Building in New York, and me on the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. I receive the guitar, and discover that the LOW E string is ringing, it can only mean that you guitar's HIGH E string in ringing in New York.
There are no local hidden variables in this example. The premise of polarity as a corollary for guitar strings is modeled in the exact same manner. Six strings on a guitar maps to the same essential parameters of each of two directions for all three axes of spin.
Ask yourself: if you construct a gun, with two diametrically opposed barrels, with exactly opposed rifling twists, and you aim the gun at two opposing (but identical) abrasive knurled metal rasp targets, such that if the bullet spins one way, the ricochet off rasp target will send it to a blue target, but if the bullet spins the other way, the grain of the rasp target is such that the bullet is sent to an orange target, will you be surprised to find that the behavior of the projectiles remains consistent?
Fire those bullets out of that gun, and as the bullets leave the opposing twists of the barrel, and the spin of the bullets encounters the friction of the knurled surface, they will consistently be sent in whichever direction the spin of the barrels rifling puts them. When one side sends spins the bullet to hit the blue target, the other barrel's twist always puts the other corresponding bullet onto the orange target, by bouncing it off the polarizer rasp.
So, now, to shrink downward to the realm of particle physics, what we find is that the ballistic particle guns are such that the emitter source is an array of many guns with varying rifling twists, but like pulling a lever on a slot machine, we cannot know which of the guns embedded in the radiation source will fire next.
We won't know the turn of the rifling of the gun's barrel prior to whichever one happens to go off. We stick out our rasp target to have it send the bullet to a colored target, and we declare that the polarizer rasp directed the bullet particle, but not really. The emitting source's gun barrel imparted the spin. The polarizers induced behavior on particles that would have behaved as reciprocals anyway.
EDIT: I just came across an illustration which might be helpful. I will place three coins on a table and cover them so that you can not see whether they are heads or tails. You get to pick two of them and I will reveal them for you but you can never look at the third one. Your task is to figure out by which rule I am placing the coins on the table.
In the first round you pick coins one and two, I reveal them to be heads and tails. In the second round you pick coins one and two again, now they are tails and heads. You continue picking coins one and two for a few thousand rounds and always see heads and tails or tails and heads, they are never the same.
Then you switch to picking coins two and three for a few thousand rounds and again they are always heads and tails or tails and heads, they are also never the same. Now you have figured out what I am doing, I am randomly choosing between heads, tails, heads and tails, heads, tails for coins one, two, and three.
So in the next round you pick coins one and three and I reveal them to you. Heads and tails. WtF?!? They should have been the same if I always choose between heads, tails, heads and tails, heads, tails. You try again. Heads and tails. Again. Tails and heads.
No matter what you try, you never get to see two coins with the same side up. That's ridiculous, you think. There are only two sides to a coin but three coins on the table. At least two of the coins have to have the same side up in each round and if you select the two coins to reveal at random, then you should at least sometimes get to see two coins with the same side up no matter which rule I use to place them. But you don't.
Assuming that I choose heads and tails for each of the coins when I placed them on the table and before you make your choice is incompatible with your observation that you never see two coins with the same side up. But if you assume that I can magically turn the coins around at the moment you tell me which two coins to reveal, then you can explain your observation. It may however trouble you because your explanation now involves magic.
And that is roughly how entangled pairs in Bell test experiments behave. Or more formally, classically P(1=2) + P(2=3) + P(3=1) >= 1, at least two coins always have the same side up no matter what the underlying distribution is. Entangled pairs in Bell test experiments violate this inequality, the probability of two coins having the same side up is less than 1. Not 0 as I portrayed it but 0.75.
None of the experiments don't use polarizing lenses to make a determination of results on both sides. This is where the experiments are fundamentally flawed and propose weak evidence.
To simply read about the fundamentals of light polarization is to understand that quantum wave function collapse is much ado about nothing, and it becomes obvious that all this contention is total bullshit, and none of it is magic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizing_filter_(photography...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_test_experiments#Notable_...
[2] https://web.physics.ucsb.edu/~martinisgroup/papers/Ansmann20...
Josephson phase qubits aren't even utilizing the same fundamental concepts to examine the qualities of the mediums that quantum uncertainty affects.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_qubit
Unlike fundamental particles such as photons and electrons, there is nothing substantial about the state represented by the standing wave qubit trapped in a circuit operated by a Josephson junction device. Destroy the device (or nevermind that, just never place it in a dewar flask chilled to 4 degrees kelvin, to activate it) and the phenomenon doesn't even exist. So much for whether or not matter or energy can never be created nor destroyed.
To sit there and state that, on paper, this is the same thing as an individual electron emitted as beta decay is, well... fundamentally flawed.
"The zero voltage state describes one of the two distinct dynamic behaviors displayed by the phase particle, and corresponds to when the particle is trapped in one of the local minima in the washboard potential. [...] With the phase particle trapped in a minimum, it has zero average velocity and therefore zero average voltage. [...] The voltage state is the other dynamic behavior displayed by a Josephson junction, and corresponds to the phase particle free-running down the slope of the potential, with a non-zero average velocity and therefore non-zero voltage."
So, we're not even talking about actual fundamental subatomic particles anymore. We're talking about phase oscillations, and renaming that as if it were a "particle" because, hey, particle/wave duality, so why not?
Hand-wavey math permits us to equivocate that a current induced on a wire, by way of the transfer of many actual electrons across substrates, can serve to prove the premise of a "teleportation device" also.
See? If we play our game of three-card monte, change phase oscillations, wiggle our noses, and tilt our heads a little, it's all very obvious that faster-than-light information transfer can be generalized to fit in the same picture, because this tuning fork makes that tuning fork ring in harmony, but only when we choose to notice.
We measure a Bell signal S of 2.0732 ± 0.0003, exceeding the maximum value |S| = 2 for a classical system by 244 standard deviations. In the experiment, we deterministically generate the entangled state, and measure both qubits in a single-shot manner, closing the “detection loophole”[11]. Since the Bell inequality was designed to test for non-classical behavior without assuming the applicability of quantum mechanics to the system in question, this experiment provides further strong evidence that a macroscopic electrical circuit is really a quantum system [7]. https://web.physics.ucsb.edu/~martinisgroup/papers/Ansmann20...
That says in plain English that they have not assumed that this system behaves according to quantum principles. In fact, it is precisely the opposite: the quantum nature of this system is a conclusion of their results. It would be statistically impossible for any system following classical rules to produce the same data.
(It bears repeating that the math underlying that conclusion is truly not very complex, and it is very, very well studied. If you can show that it’s flawed somehow, don’t bother publishing— just post your proof here and I’ll, uh... pick up the Nobel for you.)
The only caveat is that this experiment closes the detection loophole, but not the locality loophole; it is theoretically possible that a classical signal could be sent from one qubit to the other quickly enough to fabricate this data. There’s no particular reason to suspect a secret signal is in play, but it isn’t theoretically prohibited.
Assuming you haven’t found a flaw in their mathematics, and that you aren’t alleging that the researchers deliberately fabricated their data, the locality loophole is your best (and likely only) avenue to dispute their conclusions. However, if you wish to pursue that, you should keep in mind that there are many other experiments which close the locality loophole but not the detection loophole, and, since 2015, several that close both. Three-card monte may be a better investment of your time.
What I did clearly state, and insist as quite relevant, is that entanglement and double slit experiments are hocus pocus and irrelevant distractions. In fact, I stated that this experiment says basically nothing because it merely simulates quantum phenomena within a circuit.
Hello? Yes. Electrons are quantum entities, and assuredly interact with photons which are also quantum entities. This is demonstrated by the photo-electric effect, which we can all notice by placing tin foil in a microwave. Therefore a circuit is indeed a quantum system, since it assuredly deals in electrons.
Wow! Didn't even need to publish a paper about qubits to draw that conclusion! Amazing!
The implication here is that Bell is waste of time, and so is his theorum: such that emission doesn't determine state, especially when you don't look at it.
Great, thanks Bell. I'll be sure to not look at anything until I want to know what it is. True genius at work.
I don’t believe that you could, even theoretically, produce the data from a loophole-free Bell test without invoking superdeterminism, superluminality, or quantum entanglement.
Can you describe how this would be theoretically possible?
And yet, with relativistic particles, the wild claims are made that splitting photons through a substrate, and then passing them through the wall of a polarizing lens, means we can declare ourselves capable of rewriting and erasing history. Eh, not quite.
But hey, where there's smoke, there's fire, so something must be true, right? Let's just make up whatever.
2. If so, do you think a non-flawed Bell test experiment could be done?
3. If so, do you have a definite opinion about whether or not it would yield a Bell inequality violation?
4. If so, would it yield a Bell inequality violation or not.
5. If you think all Bell test experiments ever done were flawed, can you pick one, preferably one commonly considered a good one, and point out what exactly you think the flaw in the experiment is?
6. If you think Bell inequality violations are or could be real, how do you want to explain them?
Note that those are all yes no questions, well, at least all but the last two. I don't need and want more than a yes or no for the first four because from your comments alone it is not clear, at least to me, what your position actually is.
Now there are several ways you can interpret that: 1) the measurement choice at one site is superluminously conveyed to the other site and causes an effect; 2) the measurement choices are not independent and random despite the best attempts of the experimenters; 3) the wavefunction over the two sites is physically real and both measurement choices are necessary to sample it.