Hacker News Reader

Comment by israelisreal | Hacker News Reader

My daughter is going into the Air Force, getting her degree at night for nothing in 2.5 years, going back in as an officer, effectively doubling her income all the while not paying for food, lodging, medical/dental. She plans on doing 20. She'll likely marry an Air Force officer, and two people retiring at 39/40 YO will have a combined retirement of just under 100k (today's money), all the while not wasting precious money on medical/dental. She'll be young enough to have a second career in her chosen field and if the legislators don't screw up SS, she'll have three retirement incomes.

View on HN

My family has served in every branch except the USCG, and I was NROTC early on. The educational benefits are great, the GI Bill is great, the VA financing you can access is great. None of that requires a 20 year stint.

I knew quite a few officers who planned on doing the 20 year office career and then retirement. None of them made it. I knew plenty of officers who wanted to be stationed in Hawaii. They got a taste and then were redeployed elsewhere. The Air Force you think you know does not exist. They are as cut throat as any corporation. And like a corporation the closer you get to retirement the harder they try and spin you loose.

Your daughter may do all 20 years of service. But do know that one day she will plateau career wise and when she does that is when the sharks circle. [0]

[0] https://taskandpurpose.com/military-needs-abandon-promotion-...

All paid for by those who don't go into the military–industrial complex, but instead pay enormous taxes to fund it. The kid fixing broken windows does well too.

The U.S. accounts for 35% of the world's defence spending, more than twice that of Russia and China together.

You are paying for it by your service, which only 1% of the population serves. I have nothing but respect for the military and those who serve. People need to stand behind the troops or in front of them. People sleep well at night because of the military and their sacrifice.

except for all those people in poverty who don't sleep or eat well.

don't forget the collateral damage caused by those troops. Americans might get to sleep well and eat well, but those yemeni weddings guests who got droned get neither.

The current incarnation of the military has done exactly nothing to protect me, and likely has taken actions to make things more dangerous for me.

And logger, or fishermen, or oil rig workers, or drivers, who app work far more dangerous jobs, don't "sacrifice"

I sleep well at night because of a roofer who risked his life to fix a hole, not because the US spend an obscene amount of money on its military.

P.S the military isn't that dangerous. The largest killer is suicide, then transport accidents, then other accidents. Truckers are in a far more risky job, because of the danger of driving, and because of the sedantary lifestyle. Next time you see a trucker at the gas station remember to applaud him and thank him for his service.

Former military here - American service men and women haven't defended American freedom in over 75 years. Time to let that line go I would think.

And all those who don't go into the military-industrial complex benefit from a secure America, and a country like America being a global hegemon and not Russia or China.

The kid fixing broken windows does good too, but isn't exactly risking their life and limb in such an explicit manner as the way a member of the armed forces may.

"There's room at the top they're telling you still, but first you must learn how to smile as you kill, if you want to be like the folks on the hill"

https://youtu.be/iMewtlmkV6c

I'm happy for your daughter, but I'm not sure what your point is. State service can be a rewarding career path, I don't think that is in debate here.

The post was meant to state that there are paths that do not require going into mounting debt. The military is a fine path for those who are wired that way. It teaches discipline, team work, being a part of something bigger than yourself, and in return you basically live for free, largely pocketing the lion's share of your income. A young person can get a degree at night in the military (free) and if they like the military after their 4-year enlistment, can become commissioned in 3 months and effectively double their income, all the while spending nothing. It's a win-win. To the leftists that hate the military, nothing will convince them, but they sleep well at night because there are people willing to do so.

I'm a veteran that had to enlist so I could get out of poverty. I also lean left. Let me say this out of a little spite since you decided to get political:

If you and your daughter's mother made the "right" decisions, your daughter wouldn't have to enlist in the military to have a chance at a good life.

I'll show myself out now.

Fair enough, but it's her choice. She is choosing this path largely because she doesn't want to attend college in a traditional setting and deal with the kinds of BS that plague colleges now. My daughter leans hard right, again her choice, and in many ways she is further right than me or her mother. My daughter wants to do things her own way, and the Air Force is the way she wants to do it. Who am I to stop her? She's always been a willful kid and she's always been academically on point. The Air Force way benefits her in numerous ways, not least of which is she keeps her money in her pocket.

Thank you for a civil response. I apologize for my comment. I also want to add that you painted a very rosy picture of the military and while under ideal conditions everything you said can occur, the reality could be much different.

Also, what triggered me was your “leftist” comment. The military is essentially a social welfare system funded by tax payers. I’ve never met a person who joined because they wanted to be a hero or because of some sort of prestige. Almost everyone joins because of the benefits or travel or because their families forced the issue, among other reasons. It would be great if our government offered similar incentives using tax money for other career paths. As I understand it, it’s a “leftist” ideal that is constantly being shot down by the “right”. Maybe I’m wrong about that.

Anyway, you seem like a decent man and your daughter sounds like she was raised well. I’m sure she will make a fine officer someday.

> My daughter leans hard right

How ironic she's relying on the taxpayer for her financial future. Good job the rest of us actually generate economic activity so we can pay taxes to pay for her.

This is true for poor people, but I know kids who have gone into the military form backgrounds where they could have gone other routes. They have the background to get a student loan to pay for everything.

Depends on the situation. I enlisted in 11th grade. I got a scholarship awarded as a senior and my recruiter told me it was too late to change my mind. A lot of kids are not aware of their options and neither are their parents. Also, the kids that enlist for the excitement of being a soldier base their decisions on the glorified version of events presented in movies and the media. Real war is an awful thing to witness. No sane person would ever enlist to take part in it.

The fact that _anyone_ can go down this path does not mean that _everyone_ can. The military would simply stop recruiting people or offering as nice benefits if everyone did this.

The issue in our country is that we are increasingly making the default way of life for average Americans be one of more anguish and stress when we do not have to. None of the options for success in the US that we currently have are going to handle the mass group of unemployed people that something like automated cars or fast food resturaunts automating will bring, especially when so many are already doing so poorly

There is no single path to prosperity that everyone can follow. That's why I value people that share their story or the path they took, even if it doesn't apply to me.

That doesn't make it an answer to a systemic issue though, regardless of the benefits of the story being told

A lot of what you say is true, while also casually ignoring the many downsides to being in the military (such as being in situations where you are forced to kill or be killed).

I have a lot of respect for the military, and part of that comes from the incredibly high cost most military members face. Not only the potential to lose their life, but to come back carrying a strong mental weight, and to typically have to fight tooth and nail to get the benefits they were promised for signing up for in the first place.

To say your posts in this thread are disingenuous would be putting it lightly.

The statements "There exist valid and rewarding career paths for those who are willing and able" and "There exists a troubling economic trend between the relationship of capital vs labor that should be addressed" are not contradictory statements - both can be true.

People should have a sense of personal responsibility, certainly. People should also be financially educated and make good career decisions. We should also look to our political and financial organizations to find problems in the large and do what we can to fix them. And since we live in such a diverse society with drastically different values (the very values your daughter and her colleagues nobly fight to protect), the answer is not "everyone else should adopt my way of thinking". Even if you're "right", that is simply not a realistic path for policy makers, who need to deal with problems in the large.

Maybe this will highlight my thinking - I'm an engineer who went to engineering school and chose a rational career path with high expected gains. I have friends who majored in art at a very expensive school and will likely never be able to pay off their debts. I would say they did not manage their career well and perhaps should have made a different decision. However I would not want to live in a world where we did not have artists. Art education of some type is necessary for us to maintain our culture, so if everybody did the personally "rational" thing where would we be as a society?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com