How Smart Speakers Are Changing the Way We Listen to Music | Hacker News Reader

How Smart Speakers Are Changing the Way We Listen to Music

pitchfork.com

45 pointsohjeez53 comments

Smart speakers feel like tablets: an initial burst of sales, followed by years of decline as the devices sit in drawers. They're priced right for gifts and impulse buys (especially with the heavy discounts), but they're in practice less useful than they seem, and their actual utility is vulnerable to being eaten by smartphones.

However they will endure as ad-ons. The latest Bose headphones have Google Assistant built in, Sonos soundbars have Alexa, etc. Just like TVs became "smart" (i.e. equipped with ads and analytics) we will see more and more "smart" devices with this stuff integrated. It's a checkmark in the feature list, and a revenue source for the tech titans. Hug your dumb devices tightly!

I don't think so.

I'm using our echos every day for time keeping, weather, music and lights.

My tablet (Nexus) I played with it way shorter.

Also I miss Alexa when I'm in a hotel.

What? No music? No timer? No quick weather report? No alarm clock and for the lights I have to use a switch?...

It's not just a gadget it is a very convenient input method.

And it is already super useful but still basically the first generation of devices.

> Also I miss Alexa when I'm in a hotel.

> What? No music? No timer? No quick weather report? No alarm clock and for the lights I have to use a switch?...

There is now an Alexa app that provides the same functionality on smartphones.

> Also I miss Alexa when I'm in a hotel.

Just bring a hockey puck one with you when you travel.

Yes, and to begin with. Retail sales numbers were surprisingly bad, given the enormous marketing spending.

I feel this is another smartwatch moment

I used recent speakers as simple Bluetooth speakers for a few years, and recently exhumed my old loudspeakers, those classic wooden box pairs with cables and rotative potentiometers. There's no photo: the sound is (was) much better.

Do you know the story with Spanish tomatoes? It's the same, they made them more convenient, easier to carry around and sell, better calibrated, more stable, etc. but suddenly some people tried the old tomato type and noticed that the only thing we should care about when buying them is... taste. Same with speakers: smart or Bluetooth it whatever is just a way to sell us speakers whose sound is fake (because it is cheaper to process the bass with a chip)

There are over 150 million tablets shipped every year:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/276635/market-share-held...

I personally love my iPad and I’m on my 3rd one. I do wish it could replace my laptop. The Microsoft Surface seems to be doing well too. I’m considering getting the next generation.

Anyway, the narrative you’re spinning on tablets isn’t accurate.

As for smart speakers, I’ve had an Alexa for 6 months.

You’ve probably underestimated them too. For $30-$50, these little devices, while limited, are useful. Music, timers, limited shopping, weather, and random searches, ... it gets used daily.

Tablets (iPads in my case) have been a lifesaver in my businesses and for family members. For family, even 90 year olds who don’t know English can reliably communicate with all of their family using Facetime, and in business, there is no excuse for why it doesn’t work or it was brought down by malware. If it breaks just go and buy a new one and restore from iCloud.

I’ve also been seeing tons of them as POS at all the new retail/restaurant places I’ve been going to. It’s versatile, secure, resistant to idiot employees, and cheap.

Regardless of device or media used, my personal experience has been that while the level of new music discovery has increased by a lot, I found myself much less engaged/immersed when everything is served to you by an algorithm. Compared to decisively picking an album and even with just teasing through the tracks in the order the artist composed it, I'm getting the reminiscent feeling that this is not the best development for either the producer, consumer and media culture in general. In other words, I can't even remember the last time I just sat there and did nothing but listening to music.

It's adversity that makes things special and memorable. Scarcity and inconvenience once did that for music listening. Now it's very easy to hear music when you want to, so it's not particularly special; it's plentiful and cheap to the point of near-worthlessness.

I guess it's a matter of price as well — in a sense that music is way too cheap for what you're getting for.

Yep and that makes it harder than ever to make a living as a musician.

That's quite interesting. My experience has been the exact opposite. I tend to be far more likely to listen to my Discover Weekly than any other playlist, and I totally love listening to those songs both as their own thing as well as when I'm working. It's just a lot more satisfying to find new songs/artists/albums every week than not. It's just like radio, in a sense, except it's curated using an algorithm and closer to my taste than a lot of traditional radio. The algorithmic part doesn't bother me: I don't really care if the being at the other end of the radio is an algorithm or a person.

Mind you, this is my experience with Spotify: one of the reasons I'm nearly religious in my choice of streaming services. I tried Apple Music for nearly a year when it launched but found little to like there.

Spotify is indeed like radio - but without ads and other chatter, and with info about the song name and artist.

Somewhat interesting, but this really comes off as a Luddite attempting to explain smart speakers to people who’ve never heard of them.

He’s not ready to talk to a plastic puck? His friend ‘taught’ her echo to play ambient music? Honestly this sounds like it should have been written in 2015.

This luddite clicked the link thinking "what the hell is a smart speaker?" and then had the internal monologue: "oh, a marketing term for those amazon alexa type things millenials with too much money buy".

Honestly, to me the article comes off reading like a not so subtle ad...with gratuitous namedrops and a sort of strawman "I don't need this product...but all my friends!"

Anyone want to place bets that it is?

An Alexa as a music speaker? Barely a step beyond a transistor radio when it comes to audio quality. Listening to serious music on that is blasphemous.

shrug he's writing about the impact of these things on the music industry in a music publication. It's not going to be as fawning as one of those absurd go-go-gadget-fanboy websites, but it seemed like a perfectly reasonable exposition of what they are, specifically for providing context for how they might impact the music world.

and tbh I'm not really ready to talk to a plastic puck either. It's pretty weird, not to mention the uneasiness of having some poorly secured hacked up version of Android running 24/7 in my house with a big fat microphone attached designed to pick up as much as possible.

...and who knows, maybe his friend did tech it about ambient by writing an Alexa skill to organize her ambient playlists.

Voice control of lights, AC, music is great when doing things that involve using both hands (cooking, baking, maintenance work), as is note taking.

It’s not about talking to, it’s about proper hands free control.

95% of things are better controlled with hands, but there is a significant set of things where voice control is superiour (usually due to your hands being otherwise occupied).

He's missing some important facts in those areas as well. He talks of the effects of the walled garden of Alexa + Amazon Music on Spotify, but it's long been possible to use competing services (like Spotify) on Alexa...

I don't think 'Luddite' is the right term here - the Luddites were specifically a group who protested against the impacts of mechanisation on the labour market. They didn't hate technology in general.

'Technophobe', maybe?

It could be he just doesn't like this particular tech

Question to HN community: How much would you really like to see a company that purposely doesn't focus on any of the "smart technology" BS, but just on delivering pure, faithful audio. In other words, a "dumb" speaker company.

Because, I think speaker is one of the few industries where you can still add layers of smartness to an existing "dumb" speaker box simply by just connecting it to such a device.

With the gradual shift in strategies of companies like Bose and Sonos, to focus more on smart technologies, I think there is a void created which audio companies were originally known for - good, faithful audio without the buzz words.

As a personal disclosure, I'm interested in this because building loudspeakers is my passion and I would be more than delighted to get my feet wet.

I don't see any void. I see Dali, Q Acoustics, Fyne, KEF, Monitor Audio, ATC, Spendor, Acoustic Energy, Roth, Mission, Dynaudio, and Ruark.

Every one of those companies had won at least one award for their speakers.

The speaker market is so crowded I can't imagine how anyone could begin to say there is a void.

Name the market void and I bet I can name 20 companies building exactly the speaker you want.

Good point.

But, I still think some of those are high end, some of those specialize in pro-audio, some of them target audiophiles. What I mean is, someone for everyday use - JBL or Bose, minus the "smart" options. This company's strategy will not include any smartness, just focus on building good quality, good looking speakers. Say, someone like Sony (their bookshelf offerings are quite good), but without any long term plans to include smart assistants or something similar.

If you still think it's a crowded space let me know, but nevertheless, it's good feedback.

I have to agree with GP. As I write this, I am listening to a pair of JBL LSR305 desktop monitors, which are quite affordable and sound really excellent. Nothing fancy, just good quality speakers with integrated amps that I can plug into my computer / smartphone / iPod. There is nothing special about these particular speakers - there are other brands that make essentially the same thing for a similar price.

So I'm still using a pair of JBL L96s that I bought used in the mid 80s. And they still sound great. I've replaced the bass speaker surrounds twice, I admit. And if I live long enough, I'll probably need to rebuild the crossovers. But hey.

They are a bit fancy! The JBL LSR305s (and the JBL 305P MkII that I have) aren't just desktop speakers, but 5" nearfield studio monitors. Their nearest competitors are the Yamaha HS5 & KRK Rokit 5 G3, which are both common in recording studios. They're all designed to integrate and work with professional studio equipment, which smart speakers certainly aren't.

Point is, for the price of just one HomePod, you can get a pair of studio quality speakers instead. And for the price of two/stereo HomePods, you could upgrade to a pair of Genelecs or Dynaudios or Adam monitors.

(I have a couple of Google Home devices, but I've barely used them since I got my JBL 305s. I still use the Google Home sometimes for casting podcasts through the house, but not for music. I use my Pebble smartwatch for timers instead.)

JBL just launched a new (non smart) loudspeaker line at CES in January. Their Arena line was just launched in 2015. A new product line every three years seems like a pretty thriving business.

JBL and Bose aren't really any cheaper than the other vendors I mentioned. And both of them have lots of non-smart speakers for sale. I'm guessing they are both big enough companies that they can do more than one thing at a time: release fancy smart speakers and dumb speakers.

I guess I'm just always a bit dubious when people think the companies with market research, sales data, and customer interviews are getting it all wrong. Sure, that happens sometimes. But it happens so rarely that we're able to remember and cite the exception to the rule.

My guess is that they release a lot more smart speakers because there is just more market growth there. Two years ago you sold some guy an AirPlay speaker and now you're selling the same guy an Alexa-enabled speaker. People normally aren't going to be upgrading their speakers every two years. Dumb speakers just don't advance in quality that fast.

For me not so much audio, but I'd be very interested in a proper dumb TV with a good sized modern panel.

Definitely this! I only want the ability to connect an HDMI input and have super picture quality. I don’t need a WiFi “smart” TV. I don’t even want speakers. Basically a really nice monitor at 65”.

I just buy studio monitors and be done with it.

Can speakers possibly sound any better than appropriately sized studio monitors plus maybe a sub?

And at least 100W clean power per channel :) Plus good filter, mixer, etc software.

Emphasis on appropriately sized as near field monitors might be inadequate for a large room.

However, there is anyway no rigid line between studio monitors and regular speakers. Plenty of hifi firms try to optimize for a true representation of the music. Hence, you might actually overpay because you pay for studio “extras” that you might not need at home (e.g., an extra solid build)

For some reason I find the 'full range' bluetooth speakers (Tronsmart T6) are better for background music while doing stuff than a more immersive 2.1 system, maybe because the sound is from a single point source so less distracting?

Also I like to record favourite radio shows using curl then play them back, makes it easy to repeat tracks or skip overly intrusive ads, though I find the non-targeted advertising quaint these days. :)

My HomePods + Apple Music are extraordinary. “Hey Siri, play Delta Blues.” Bam. Play music I would like. Bam. Play Kind of Blue in the Living Room, play the Harry Potter Soundtrack in the kid’s room. Bam.

HomePod and Siri may not order pizza yet, but it does what it does incredibly well. I even replaced a sound bar for the TV with a stereo pair with a minimal footprint. There was a lot of lamenting Apple Music’s not being Spotify, but now, it’s pretty clear that in my house, Spotify fails to compare — especially when you use Apple Music with CarPlay. The next five years is going to be really fun I think!

> I even replaced a sound bar for the TV with a stereo pair with a minimal footprint

Do you do this via AirPlay? If so, how do you find it? I’ve been considering doing the same thing, but I run exclusively from an Apple TV.

On Apple TV, in audio settings, you can select home pod sources. Pretty seamless.

I hate being spied on. I don't even use music streaming services. Maybe if I could manage it all anonymously, I suppose.

But damn, the possibility that I could say "Play that song that goes like this [hums a few bars]" would be very cool. Or "Play that song with [some lyrics]." Or "I liked that, but wasn't there an older version?"

HomePod doesn’t “spy.” The Siri stuff is anonymous. Apple doesn’t know that you asked Siri for directions to a porn shop: unlike Google and Alexa where their business model is based on “spying.”

You can actually use Siri to identify songs (thanks to the Shazam acquisition.) “Hey Siri, what’s this song..” it then listens and identifies the song.

That's good news. I've been coming around to Apple, I admit. They've given me no hassle about having a pseudonymous Apple Store account, funded from Bitcoin via giftcards.

I was blown away when I discovered Shazam. Waiting in line, I heard a song that I vaguely remembered. So I asked this guy if he knew it. He pulled out his iPhone, waited a minute, and then told me. Very cool! Although also a little frightening ;)

I am not interested in "smart" speakers or televisions. Like my refrigerator and toaster, I prefer these devices to be "dumb".

I listened to Sirius XM’s U2 channel today and it was so much better than an algorithmic run through their library.

Echo/Home/Alexa devices are the modern day equivalent of winXP systray icons ... their number is inversely correlated to the intelligence of the user.

These are two of the most idiotic biases I've ever seen on this site, and that's saying something.

As someone writing software on my family's PC 15 years ago, I tended to add 5+ systray icons over the standard ones my parents had. If only I'd known how stupid they made me...

Regarding speakers, you're likely referring to the privacy tradeoff. People could say the same about someone using a credit card, grocery loyalty program, or any wireless carrier. We all make privacy tradeoffs on a daily basis as a cost for having a modern, convenient life in a capitalist society.

GP meant of course icons such as those of your ask toolbar, pc cleaner, some AV, some boot speedup program, a handful of other "security programs", ...

I guess they should have been more specific.

Even then, why is someone stupid for getting a computer with bloatware installed that actively misleads users into thinking it's useful?

One of my friends is an aerospace engineer and hasn't uninstalled the antivirus program that came with his laptop. Is he stupid, or does he just not care to investigate all the obscure programs that came with his laptop?

Do you really believe that having an always on Internet uploading microphone in your private domicile is equivalent to using a grocery loyalty card? Also phone carriers have well established restrictions on lawful intercepts.

As mentioned before, Siri with HomePod isn’t “uploading.” Run Wireshark and you can see exactly what is happening. The always on listening happens entirely on the device and queries are anonymized.

Alexa and Google on the other hand..

Your smartphone is easier to hack as the isolated Hardwarechip in a smart speaker which listens to you.

No doubt phone can be compromised, but listening to everything one says isn't its designed purpose. It's the intended use of the "smart" microphone that's fundamentally untrustworthy. Even if everything works exactly as intended, recordings are available on the owning company's servers and they are subject to discovery, lawful or otherwise.

Well, that's just not very civil. Could you please refrain?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

It's ironic that my response calling biases "idiotic" was flagged, and the original comment calling millions of people stupid was not...

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