Grand Jury Indicts Russian Officers for Hacking Related to the 2016 Election
justice.gov
justice.gov
(1) CrowdStrike, for all intents and purposes, failed. Russia had access to dem servers for four months after they were hired
(2) Donors trying to use ActBlue (fairly major way dems raise money) were taken to a spoofed Russian site. Stealing democratic campaign donations feels like a very direct attack on the democratic process
> This case was investigated with the help of the FBI’s cyber teams in Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and San Francisco and the National Security Division.
Assuming this never goes to trial, could the DOJ ever be compelled to release the evidence used to attribute the defendants? Or will it remain "pending arraignment" indefinitely?
I'd love to see an in-depth technical analysis of how they were able to substantiate these allegations
Either that, or they'll send you a bunch of documents that look something like this
https://static.businessinsider.com/image/4cc59ba2cadcbbbf5f0...
If they actually are arrested or surrender themselves to face the charges, yes, mostly. That is, they are entitled to not only what the prosecution will use at trial, but to have any exculpatory evidence in the hands of the government proactively turned over, and to have compulsory means of securing any relevant evidence, physical or testimonial, from any person subject to the court.
But that's likely moot in this case; these defendants seem unlikely to be brought before the court, voluntarily or involuntarily.
If you meant “ever”, then yes, but that would require the indicted individuals actually be arrested and brought before the court, which, while not impossible, is improbable without a change of government in both the US and Russia.
If it didn't go to trial, and it's classified (which it almost certainly is) or otherwise not subject to FOIA (which as sensitive, even if it not classified, information related to an open criminal case, which it will be until the case is resolved, it will continue to be at a minimum, it would seem exempt from) there won't be any likely compulsory process. Maybe Congress could pry it out of DoJ and make it public, by at least the current leadership send willing to stand up to intense pressure including public impeachment threats from the same party in Congress on at least some sensitive investigation information, so it's not clear that would work, either.
A Russian company--allegedly doing Russia's dirty work--hired top US lawyers and they are giving DOJ a heartburn...they must share evidence (can tell how it was obtained) and get ready to go to trial. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/05/09/concord-manag...
https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/operation-ghost-stories-ins...
And those terms happen to all show up later that day in this post: https://guccifer2.wordpress.com/2016/06/15/dnc/
We all here talked about that release at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11912412
Our top comment suggested, "The media (and CrowdStrike) blame Russians for it [0]. Heh... yet this blog and the hacker himself, says he did it alone. // Yes, APTs definitely do happen but I'd bet they happen a lot less frequently than the media and security companies would want us to believe."
Those same computers controlled the twitter accounts, @dceaks_ (https://twitter.com/dcleaks_?lang=en), @Guccifer_2 (https://twitter.com/Guccifer_2) and the now-suspended, @BaltimoreIsWhr.
Those computers also negotiated bitcoin transactions for VPN services, made numerous encouraging facebook posts, transferred data to WikiLeaks, and registered relevant domain names.
And finally those computers communicated with:
1) a candidate for US Congress,
2) a registered state lobbyist,
3) a reporter,
4) a senior member of the Trump campaign.
Additionally, on July 27, Trump suggested in his speech, "Russia, if you're listening. I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing." And those same computers, that same day, "attempted after hours to spearphish for the first time email accounts... used by Clinton's personal office."
Anyone who has seen the actual video for that blurb that doesn’t take it as a joke should re-evaluate their sense of humor.
But solicitation is also a crime.
What is the purpose of said “joke”? Did it enhance your life in some way? Did it advance the interests of the USA in some way? What are the limits? Would you consider Strozk’s texts as “jokes” as well? Why or why not?
To bring this back to hacker news, would you prefer a language syntax where you could insert meaningless statements that the interpreter or compiler could selectively decide to execute or not based on some non deterministic property? Lord knows we have enough problems with UB in C already ;)
Sure but what constitutes crossing the line is debatable. Plus he wasn't a head of state at the time, he held no office whatsoever and was only a candidate in arguably the dirtiest election of most people's lives.
> What is the purpose of said “joke”? Did it enhance your life in some way?
I thought it was funny and enjoyed the line. As a human I generally enjoy laughing so yes it enhanced my life.
> Did it advance the interests of the USA in some way?
I'd wager others thought it was amusing as well and that may have lead to a more positive opinion of Trump which in turn may have lead to greater voter turn out. A sense of humor can connect with a lot of people. Those that agree with his policies and agenda for the country would see things that lead to his election, such as demonstrating a sense of humor, as positive things.
> What are the limits?
There's no specific rule, it's up to the public to decide. Harping on Clinton's missing emails and private server setup was a go-to topic for Trump including commenting about how it was likely a hacking target by foreign governments. Joking about one of those governments providing the emails as evidence is (IMHO) well within bounds.
> Would you consider Strozk’s texts as “jokes” as well? Why or why not?
There's definitely a lot of hyperbole in Strozk's texts but even stripping that away I wouldn't want him anywhere near an investigation of a political ally or adversary. It's the same reason you wouldn't want him on a jury. It's not that people aren't allowed to have opinions or even strong opinions. It's that once there's been a demonstration of animus or bias the end product will be tainted.
> To bring this back to hacker news, would you prefer a language syntax where you could insert meaningless statements that the interpreter or compiler could selectively decide to execute or not based on some non deterministic property? Lord knows we have enough problems with UB in C already ;)
Politics, and more generally human interaction, is non-deterministic. As much as I love strong typing and well formed expressions, I wouldn't want the entire world outside of software to be like that. There's beauty in the non-determinism.
A reasonable person could look at his behavior and think that he was hiding his corruption in plain sight.
Note that the communications with the politicians and reporters are all a month or more after the leaks and their contents were public knowledge.
Furthermore, the public leaks _began_ before much of the direct communication, but the direct communication included material that had not yet been publicly leaked. The public leaks didn't occur all at once. They were staged to maximize impact.
What I could not glean from the indictment is how they could possibly have identified these 12 people individually. The government must have some other sigint or humint for that? Will this ever make it to trial so that evidence can be revealed?
These indictments are the result of a massive counterintelligence operation spanning many agencies from several nations. In this case specifically, the AIVD (Dutch intel) hacked the GRU offices where a large part of the hacking was carried out and managed to exfiltrate significant amounts of evidence including CCTV security footage of GRU officers coming and going [1]. The evidence proving the crimes for the purposes of a conviction will be made public but unless lawyers for the defendants come to challenge the warrants and get them unsealed, the evidence that led to the public stuff will likely stay secret for decades.
[1] https://www.volkskrant.nl/wetenschap/dutch-agencies-provide-...
More importantly we know that the career Republicans running the office of special counsel, who incidentally all left multi-million dollar a year jobs to be at the center of the most politically charged, controversial, and scrutinized investigations in American history, have staked their reputations and careers on the truth of all of the documents they have filed in court, under oath.
What would be at risk by sharing what is absolutely known to exist?
For example, when it was exposed that the CIA was using a vaccination program in Pakistan to test for the DNA of known terrorists, their associates, and families, the backlash led to the death of many aid works and a massive drop in vaccinations in the country.
> Just checking... But in the Russian Hacking Scandal... Was any of the information released to the public wrong or fake?
It's the Russian election meddling scandal, the hacking was just one piece of it, and, yes, much of the information fed to the public in the course of that operation was false.
Some of that has been covered in the special counsel’s previous indictment of Russian organizations and individuals involved in the propaganda end of the operation.
> Because if the issue is that "Russia meddled!" by showing true things
It's not; the issue is that a US Presidential campaign actively collaborated in an influence operation by a hostile foreign power directed against the US (that is itself part of a larger operation being conducted not only the US but the entire Western Alliance), that that influence operation was integral to the success of the Presidential campaign, and that the US President (who is, by virtue of that position, also effective head of a major US political party) may, therefore, effectively be an agent of a hostile foreign power working against the interests of the US and her allies.
[added] I will not provide any reply or assistance if you further promote, hypothesize, or engage in crazy conspiracy theories.
1. http://observer.com/2018/07/putin-conflict-poland-ukraine-na...
I don't think anything in my comment was particularly inflammatory.
I don't think Trump is a Russian agent, but I wouldn't call the idea crazy
It would be basically political suicide for any Republican to vote to impeach because many Americans don't believe Trump is an agent, don't believe he did anything wrong, and still agree with his policies and agenda.
Congress has the ability to impeach, but not the will.
Of course, for members of his party concerned about the danger such public knowledge would do to their own personal political position and their party, the incentive if they know he is a foreign agent is to actively blur and distract from the issue to prevent the public from getting a clear understanding.
EDIT: This might result, say, in the bizarre spectacle of Congress members and of that party continuously attacking the credibility of individuals and institutions which have traditionally favored (or who are members of) that party simply because they are faithfully pursuing (or insufficiently sabotaging) an investigation of the operation in which the President is involved.
If a Russian agent became President of the USA, I would expect him to disarm american citizens and to reduce the power of the U.S. military.
e: if you're downvoting please explain why.
It seems like a no-brainer that an enemy force (Russia in this instance) would want to disarm the people they plan to attack/control.
The OP asked what I'd expect from a Russian Agent as President, and that's what I'd expect one of the first steps to be. I _wouldn't_ expect a russian agent who became president of the U.S. to fight for the 2nd Amendment/arming of citizens and to push for the EU to increase their military spending.
Sure, it could happen, but I wouldn't expect it.
Weakening the U.S. military sounds like a more worthwile goal. Reducing their budget would be one way to do that, but that's easily undone. I would go for more a more sublte approach to inflict better long-term damage. Try to restructure and reprioritise to get less done with more money. Try to get rid of important military installations abroad. Try to burn bridges with allies to make sure the US military has to take a larger burden in foreign interventions. If you're feeling really bold, try to establish entirely new arms of the military to further decrease effectiveness and increase spending. Try to do all of that in a way that's hard to undo by the next president.
That's a bold claim given that this indictment is exclusively of Russian agents and the special counsel has explicitly stated that said President is not a target of the probe [0]. When you say "active collaboration" what does that actually mean? And could you present some evidence of it?
[0] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-19/rosenstei...
> All contact I had with the entity known as Gufficer 2 came after I had written an article that was published on August 5th 2016 by Breitbart News and vetted by their lead investigative reporter Lee Stranahan. That article came after the DNC and DCCC material had been released and identified the role of a hacker going by the moniker Guccifer 2 based on our own sources.
> Therefore, any such “collaboration” would’ve also involved a time machine – something that I think Putin has not perfected yet.
> On August 14- some ten days- later I noted on my twitter feed that Guccifer 2.0 who had been suspended by Twitter had been reinstated. I did so because I abhor censorship. Then I did in fact have a short and innocuous Direct Message exchange with Guccifer 2.0. It was so perfunctory, brief and banal I had forgotten it. Not exactly 007 stuff even if Guccifer 2.0 was working for the Russkies.
These statements seem consistent with the information in the indictment.
[1] https://stonecoldtruth.com/roger-stone-the-smoking-gun-aims-...
He then went on TV and called for the Russians to hack Hillary.
Republicans have argued that Trump was joking. The fact that Russia appears to have promptly complied with Trump's request complicates the situation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_campaign%E2%80%93Russian...
Considering how many high level people in Trump's close orbit have been indicted or investigated it would be extremely difficult for him to have not known about any of this occurring in his campaign.
Paul Manafort: Indicted for a number of financial crimes unrelated to the 2016 election. https://www.justice.gov/file/1007271/download and https://www.justice.gov/file/1038391/download
Richard Gates: As above.
George Papadopoulos: Plead guilty to lying to the FBI without an underlying crime. https://www.justice.gov/file/1007346/download
Michael Flynn: Plead guilty to lying to the FBI without an underlying crime. https://www.justice.gov/file/1015126/download
So far there is no indictment or guilty plea among Trump's associates related to the 2016 election.
[...]
> So far there is no indictment or guilty plea among Trump's associates related to the 2016 election.
Wrong. What Papadopoulos plead guilty lying to the FBI about was specifically collaborating with Russians known to and believed by him to be connected with the Russian government while he was a foreign policy adviser to the campaign, on matters related to the campaign. See the “Statement of Offense” filed with his plea:
This is not the only indictment by the special counsel office, and the statement of the offense in one of the guilty pleas in a prior indictment is directly about active collusion efforts.
And I'm discussing what is at issue in the scandal, not merely what is covered by indictments that have already been issued.
> the special counsel has explicitly stated that said President is not a target of the probe
People read too much into that, because they tend to think that “target” is a broader term than it is, particularly, that it includes what is actually termed a “subject” rather than a “target”. That's notable because the special counsel has also explicitly said Trump is a subject of the investigation.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/04/trump-t...
No, I don't. The campaign is not a “he”, and I said that the collaboration by the campaign (and the potential that, if that is the case, the President is effectively a foreign agent) is the issue, that is, the subject of concern/debate, not that it's a fact (though at least one member of the campaign has already admitted to actively seeking to collaborate with Russia, and implicated other campaign officials, in his guilty plea to charges laid by the special counsel.)
The issue of target vs subject is a technical one by the special counsel and is intentionally twisted by the conservative media. It's like in any other legal trial: a verdict of "not guilty" is not an affirmation that the defendant is innocent, but rather that the prosecution couldn't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the defendant was guilty.
Whereas most of SV embraces "move fast and break things", we should be thankful that the special counsel is not.
As for active collaboration? The DAG Rod Rosenstein told Trump these indictments were coming and their nature. And today Trump decides not to push back on Putin/Russia for these actions, but he impugned Robert Mueller with "rigged witch hunt" claims. Again. That is giving aid and comfort to Putin/Russia by papering over, giving them cover for, attacks/crimes on the United States, its people, its institutions, and at least two candidates.
He has been doing a variation on this for two years: maybe they did it, maybe they didn't, Putin denies it so we should believe that because Putin is a good guy and we should just get along, and maybe it was China and maybe it was a 400 pound fat man in a bed.
And what he is doing is two fold: Demanding Americans believe Trump over Mueller, which is hilarious, insane, and ridiculous. But that's just what this presidency has mostly given us in spades. And then demanding that American believe Putin over Mueller and U.S. intelligence agencies!
Trump says he will "ask the question" again to Putin. The false premise is that there is even a question but that too is active collaboration with Russia by accepting that Putin has a more reliable answer to give than Trump's own intelligence service, and his own DOJ, and the special counsel.
Active collaboration is happening in broad daylight.
In a federal grand jury investigation, a “subject” is very close to what is understood in the common vernacular as a “suspect” (but not a “prime suspect”) in a criminal investigation; someone whose conduct is being examined because of the distance of illegal activity, but against whom prosecutors do not have enough evidence of guilt that charges (or, socially, an attempt to indict) is imminent.
> The president is a subject of the probe, which is the ambiguous position of possibly being a witness or eventually becoming a target.
That has got to be one of the scarier things I've read in some time as to the depth and breadth of current surveillance.
He publicly supported the claim it was the DNC and every day it looks like Wikileaks was just being used as an information laundering service for the Russians.
But this is from a president who has said about Putin:
"He said he didn't meddle. He said he didn't meddle. I asked him again. You can only ask so many times"
"Every time he sees me, he says, 'I didn't do that"
"And I believe, I really believe, that when he tells me that, he means it."
"I think he is very insulted by it."
The timing of this indictment is obvious to probably most people, but in particular to people who have studied or are professionals in international relations - it is to give the president the option to cancel the meeting in Helsinki. To give him the option to recalibrate and criticize Putin.
But instead what we've got so far is more "witch hunt" paranoid conspiratorial nonsense which is identical to the single public contribution of significance Trump produced before becoming president: five years of the racist lie of birtherism, followed by an admission otherwise while simultaneously lying again by blaming Clinton for having started the conspiracy. This is a man who will make up anything, do anything, lie about anything, and blame anyone for all of it without any reluctance whatsoever.
And it will continue that way.
a) Russian intelligence tried to hack Hillary's personal email system for the first time on July 27 2016.
b) Russian cutout Joseph Mifsud told George Papadopoulos on April 26 2016 that Russia already had thousands of her emails.
22. On or about July 27 2016 the Conspirators attempted after hours to spearphish for the first time email accounts at a domain hosted by a 3rd party provider and used by Clinton's personal office. At or around the same time, they also targeted seventy-six email addresses at the domain for the Clinton Campaign.
[July 27 2016 is the date on which Trump said on national TV "Russia if you're listening..." and invited Russia to commit a crime to hack and find Clinton's 'missing' emails.]
34. In or around Sep 2016 the Conspirators successfully gained access to DNC computers hosted on 3rd party cloud-computing services. These computers contained test applications related to the DNC's analytics. After conducting reconnaissance, the Conspirators gathered data by creating backups, or snapshots, of the DNC's cloud-based systems using the cloud provider's own technology. The Conspirators then moved the snapshots to cloud-based accounts they had registered with the same service, thereby stealing the data from the DNC.
[Trump claims the DNC did not turn over the hacked (physical) server to the FBI. And per this indictment it's clear it was a virtual server hosted in the cloud and at least Mueller's team does have quite a bit of forensic evidence to show how the theft occurred.]
43a. On or about Aug 15 2016, the Conspirators posing as Guccifer 2.0 recieved a request for stolen documents from a candidate for the U.S. Congress. The Conspirators responded using the Guccifer 2.0 persona and sent the candidate stolen documents related to the candidate's opponent.
[Let's pretend this candidate didn't know Guccifer 2.0 was the GRU. He still knew he was asking for and receiving illegally obtained documents.]
72. In or around July 2016, KOVALEV and his co-conspirators hacked the website of a state board of elections (SBOE 1) and stole information related to approximately 500,000 voters including names, addresses, party affiliation, social security numbers, dates of birth, and driver's license numbers.
There are quite a few Americans "involved" either by being affected by ID theft by a crime organization purporting to be a government[1]; an American soliciting a foreign government to commit a crime the proceeds of which would likely benefit his campaign; and at least one American who solicited materials obtained in course of a crime who then received those materials to use against a competing candidate for Congress.
So the idea that American's aren't involved is nonsense. There are no Americans indicted for crimes in this particular filing, however.
[1] This is diplomatic. The less diplomatic version is that this is one nation attacking another, and is an act of war. That's how spy games get characterized when you get caught and revealed to the public.
Trump's words were "Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing"[1]. In my view, interpreting that as a call to commit a crime is a stretch.
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/28/us/politics/donald-trump-...
> [Trump claims the DNC did not turn over the hacked (physical) server to the FBI. And per this indictment it's clear it was a virtual server hosted in the cloud and at least Mueller's team does have quite a bit of forensic evidence to show how the theft occurred.]
Trump's claims are supported by Comey's testimony on March 20, 2017 that the FBI never got any kind of access, physical or virtual, to any DNC machine.
> HURD: [...] you have still been -- never been given access to any of the technical or the physical machines that were -- that were hacked by the Russians.
> COMEY: That's correct although we got the forensics from the pros that they hired which -- again, best practice is always to get access to the machines themselves, but this -- my folks tell me was an appropriate substitute.
> "The DNC coordinated with the FBI and federal intelligence agencies and provided everything they requested, including copies of DNC servers," Watson said. She added that the copy contains the same information as the physical server.
Reminder: the NSA has been hacking into governments and businesses all over the world.
Start?
It's hardly as if US intelligence officers have never previously been charged by foreign governments.
[1] https://foreignpolicy.com/2009/04/14/spain-to-indict-the-bus...
[2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/05/cia-long-his...
[3] https://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/world/europe/05italy.html
[4] https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/nov/15/us-army-and-cia-...
[5] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/12/0...
This has ALREADY HAPPENED. Russia has enticed people they secretly indicted on spy charges back to Russia, and then stuck them in prison.
https://abcnews.go.com/WN/russian-spies-swap-cold-home/story...
These Russian spies in the US were not US IC agents.
Farce, idiocy, or trolling, I can't tell.
>“Together with our law enforcement partners, the Department of Justice is resolute in its commitment to locate, identify and seek to bring to justice anyone who interferes with American elections.
Sounds like Don Quixote is fighting the internet now. Unless you just shut it down how is it possible to not have world wide "interference" on the world wide web? Perhaps we need to think about how the instantaneous global communications network is obsolescing the concept of the nation state which was formed as a result of the printing press.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gutenberg_Galaxy
>Free and fair elections are hard-fought and contentious, and there will always be adversaries who work to exacerbate domestic differences and try to confuse, divide, and conquer us.
That sounds like a fitting description of mass media/news corporations everywhere.
Think long and hard about what you're saying here. You're dismissing foreign interference, but critisizing domestic political involvement.
The key difference here is that Russia isn't the United States and has no say in our policies, while American journalists are citizens and voters who have a societal duty to participate the democracy. When the former gets involved in an election, we call it "foreign interference", when the latter gets involved we call it "democracy".
So which do you prefer? Foreign manipulation of public will, or democracy?
That's a false dichotomy which implies you missed my point. There is no such thing as sovereign democracy in a globalized world with omnipresence and instantaneous communication.
> Please don't impute astroturfing or shillage. That degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about it, email us and we'll look at the data.
Also, your own account is all of 40 days old and you have a grand total of 8 comments, so you don't really have a leg to stand on here.