Comment by throwawaymath | Hacker News Reader

Comment by throwawaymath | Hacker News Reader

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I guess this is a matter of opinion, but I’ll bite anyway. What content do you watch from Netflix or Amazon that you find to be comparable to HBO’s tentpole programming?

To be honest with you, I find Amazon’s content to be...well, bad. On the other hand Netflix has a few good shows, but the company is clearly prioritizing quantity over quality. Not only does its content not have the awards or acclaim HBO’s garners, but it just churns out forgettable movie after forgettable movie. A lot of Netflix’s content is becoming the new “direct to TV” movie.

HBO’s approach is to produce character-driven and thought-provoking programming which is ahead of the curve. That’s not everyone’s cup of tea when it comes to entertainment, but they naturally achieve greater critical acclaim and cult status. It’s hard to think of a way most of Netflix or Amazon’s content can be compared to HBO’s except, “It’s entertaining.” In what way do you see Netflix or Amazon innovating? For what definition of “good” do you find your favorite Netflix and Amazon shows comparing favorably with HBO’s?

For a while I held high hopes of Netflix becoming a new HBO because House of Cards was exceptional. But they didn’t exactly make that a trend. And while we’re on the subject of UI, Netflix is so hellbent on having me binge watch the day away that I can’t hover over a title for more than 1 second without it blaring a crappy trailer at me. The native Netflix experience (LG TV, AppleTV) has me scurrying from title to title like a mad squirrel hoping to read a description without triggering the trailer.

House of Cards (First 2 seasons at least), Stranger Things, Orange is the New Black, Marco Polo, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, Dear White People, Bojack Horseman, and to a lesser extent some of the Marvel shows (Jessica Jones, Daredevil, Luke Cage, Punisher), not to mention how much amazing standup comedy Netflix puts out. Sure, there's a lot of junk, but Netflix is succeeding in becoming HBO faster than HBO is becoming Netflix.

I'll give you the standup comedy selection because I agree it's really quite good. I also like Stranger Things but can't comment on the others. But I actively dislike the Marvel content on Netflix. I find its characters one-dimensional and its plot unmotivated. Some of this is probably the transition from comic books to TV, but on the other hand I love almost everything from the cinematic universe.

I think the biggest problem is that the Marvel cinematic universe seems to have better acting, better writing, superior interconnectedness overall and stakes that are well calibrated to its cast of heroes. In contrast, I find most of the characters' hyperfocus on specific neighborhoods in Marvel's Netflix shows to be frankly ridiculous and annoying. I also find myself wishing the main characters would just kill the villains a few episodes into each series. It boggles my mind how much waffling and angst goes on.

As a followup to your last comment though, my point had nothing to do with HBO becoming Netflix. I don't even think HBO should try to become Netflix at all. I would prefer for HBO to remain the curated content space that it is, precisely because I'm concerned with the quality of content. Strictly speaking, the ratio of quality content to junk on HBO is far, far higher than Netflix's. It's not really about HBO or Netflix being more successful in becoming the other, it's about quality. Regardless of whether or not HBO is close to becoming Netflix, Netflix is so far from becoming HBO I don't even think they could recognize an interstate map outlining the route.

HBO and Netflix both produce a couple of dozen shows a year. HBO seems like it has a better hit ratio because you have to go back every week to get an update on the one or two current shows you enjoy. HBO has a better presentation for appearing prestige.

No, I disagree strongly. I don't binge Netflix and I still feel the same way.

Do you watch 24 different HBO shows a year, or do you watch 4 or 5?

Four or five, but I don't really follow what you mean. I sit through maybe 10 pilots on Netflix that don't motivate me to watch the entire season. The last time I tried and failed to get into an HBO show was with Succession (in my opinion that show is exceptionally bad). Before that I can't recall. But on Amazon I churned off of literally everything, and on Netflix it takes me at least five duds (that are apparently a strong match for me) to find something I'll commit to. The only thing I think Netflix has really nailed is comedy, and that's because their selection of comedy is actually diverse and comprehensive. Conversely, a lot of their selection for traditional drama is formulaic.

To add to this, Sense8, Queer Eye and A Series of Unfortunate Events. Just shows how far deep the solid content goes. I'm still a fan of HBO and I don't think the transition makes sense, but Netflix absolutely has a lot of good stuff of similar quality. I think the transition is a bad move because if they go the other way, the production of junk may result in a net loss of top content which is what makes them good, regardless of how little/much junk they produce.

Marco Polo was great but got cancelled over costs, so that's not the kind of thing we're going to see more of.

I don't think any of those shows are on the same level as the top tier HBO ones. The only show that I think reaches it is Breaking Bad (AMC). I actually think the best netflix ever did was with Bloodline (S1 only). House of Cards, while fun to watch, was quite one dimensional. And HBO deserves a lot of credit for supporting The Wire like it did (despite low viewer counts), and continuing to do so, more recently with Show Me A Hero. Shows that will not be popular for the general market but are good shows with a story worth telling. Quoting The Economist:

And second, because as drama “Show Me a Hero” excels. Younger viewers may find this hard to believe, but once upon a time American studios made films for adults, with nary a dinosaur, superhero or hunger game in sight. Directors such as Elia Kazan, Sidney Lumet and Spike Lee dealt with serious moral questions, and made urban realism riveting. Messrs Simon and Zorzi are their successors, but their work is richer, more sophisticated—and better.

It's interesting that everyone is talking about the newly produced original series on HBO and competitors. I wasn't thinking of those; Netflix and Amazon between them have many of the great films ever made in any country, plus many 3rd party series that are great (nobody has mentioned Broad City, the best comedy TV in history, and there are shows like (EDIT: Man in the High Castle,) The Americans and Transparent, which many people love though I haven't watched them). It takes some digging to find them, but that's ok; my Netflix and Amazon queues are filled with films better than any HBO series IMHO, except The Wire, and are so large that I won't live long enough to watch them all.

> comparable to HBO’s tentpole programming?

I think this misses the forest for the tentpoles. Right now HBO's original programming is one episode per week of: Sharp Objects, Succession, Last Week Tonight, Vice and a Bill Maher special. Yes I think Netflix's better new content competes with that. Netflix supplements that with a huge array of quality third party tv shows. Non-English content is another set of moats for netflix, I wouldn't be shocked to learn that Netflix Japan has more hours of original-ish (lots of it is co-produced) content per year than HBO. Korean and Spanish might be behind but not too far and Chinese and Hindi are just a couple years away.

To be fair, you chose the bottom quartile of HBO content (two of those are not even the same genre of entertainment). Netflix's best content does compete with HBO, but it sure seems like it takes a lot of greenlights just to get there.

I'm not really talking about how large of a selection either platform has, either. I don't think they should even directly compete. HBO's niche is precisely that its new content is generally of a higher bar than Netflix's (or other platforms).

Strictly speaking, Netflix simply doesn't have a show like The Wire or The Sopranos. Those are cult phenomenon (and deservedly so). On the other hand, HBO also offers greater freedom and creative control to innovate in narrative storytelling. House of Cards fourth wall breaking is the closest I think Netflix has come to this (and after that maybe Stranger Things). But the gigantic ensemble cast of Game of Thrones and the heavy use of non-linear timeframes in Westworld are somewhat unimaginable in hithertoseen Netflix content.

> I'm not really talking about how large of a selection either platform has, either. I don't think they should even directly compete.

I don't think you can avoid the quantity argument, especially if you're going to hold up The Wire and The Sopranos, two shows that wrapped years before Netflix even got into the content game. Yes Netflix doesn't have any original content I've seen as good as The Wire or The Sopranos but they pair their many A- and B+ shows with the best of AMC (Breaking Bad, Mad Men) and British TV (Black Mirror, Peaky Blinders, UK Office), along with most of FX and Showtime's catalog and a large number of current and classic standouts (Twin Peaks, Fawlty Towers, Arrested Development, Cheers, etc.). If you want to watch high quality TV, there's a good argument that Netflix is absolutely where it's at. And if you're also interested in any kind of genre/non-highbrow TV, Netflix absolutely swamps HBO in pretty much every category.

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