99designs: Need something designed (logo, ...)? Crowdsource it.
99designs.com
99designs.com
since there is no forum here, I have to post it here. after 200 designs, seeing many of my idea's incorperated into other peoples designs, and some do it be better, but still. I have decided to leave, no more free idea's from me for the other more experienced designers. The game is over, I unsubscribe, if I can figure out how, and leave it for what it is. The site owners make money on it now (39 credits a pop) , designers got free idea's, and I make more money now locally then I ever would make here. (like zero until now.;o) ) So I bid you all a farewell, it was an experiment for me, and I must say, with a negativ result. I wish all the designers a good time here, and many profits, it was a different experience and it was fun when it was free, also for the contest holders, but for now, I am gone. cheerio.
You know, this is a case where I think that the laws, if being broken, should be broken.
I think that these sites are more like "submitting a request for comps and receiving them" more than a "contest."
Now if people are running these "contests" and not fulfilling their end of the bargain, then they are bastards and should be caned.
But for people in developing countries with great design skills (or people in developed countries that are looking for experience) these "contests" provide a much greater potential for income that they normally wouldn't get.
I think that a lot of this whining about the legality and "morality" of these sites and contests by the establishment (in this case the design firms and professional designers) is simply a case of them being afraid of lower cost alternatives (that might be better than them!).
This may be another case of p2p and digital music vs. the recording industry and the RIAA. There will be some losers (napster) but the cat is already out of the bag.
"Make a web application to my specs, please. Do it a few different ways so I have options. If I don't like it, I won't use it, but I won't pay for it, either."
Some industries do follow this model (e.g. architecture, design, custom enterprise SW), but the business case for proposals/POCs/loss-leaders can only be justified when:
(# of proposals generated) x (cost of work to produce proposals) < (value of awarded contracts) - (cost to fulfill contracts)
However, with contest sites/spec work, that equation only makes sense if you value your time (costs) at close to zero, since the ratio of proposals generated to awarded contracts is so lopsided.
On one hand, there is no difference. People say this to hackers all the time. On Drupal.org this happens so much that there's an official process: There's a specific category in the ticket tracker called "Feature Request" which is applied to tickets in which end users beg the open-source developers to spend their free time developing one feature or another.
Some of those requests succeed. But many of them are ignored, because the number of feature requests and their complexity is orders of magnitude greater than the number of available hackers and their talent.
Of course, if code is built in five minutes for free by a twelve-year-old, it often doesn't work. (To get it to work, you have to pay the twelve-year-old $100 per hour to fix the bugs.) But if a corporate logo is a paint-by-numbers collection of the latest trendy visual cliches, thrown together in five minutes for free by (e.g.) the kind of amateur Photoshop jockey who enters the Fark Photoshop contests... most business owners will never know the difference.
The designers on the no-spec site (e.g. http://www.no-spec.com/articles/why-speculation-hurts/ ) sound like tailors, trying to convince us that mass-market clothing made in sweatshops and sold off the rack is a terrible product when compared to bespoke-tailored suits. And they're right, of course. But from the perspective of an owner of the local pizza parlor who needs a quick logo, it may not make much difference.
I will say, though, that no-spec.com offers some of the most effectively-designed FUD I've ever seen. You should definitely shop there for all your scary-signage needs.
http://code.google.com/android/adc.html
We're still fine, and I'm not mad about it either. It's not like companies like Google and Netflix are forcing people to code at gun point. There is choice involved. If contests cause my work situation to change for the worse, then I adapt (or get lazy and become obsolete...)
In a logo design competition, the elements cannot (easily) be resold or repurposed, since they are specific to the specs of a particular client.
Also, winning one the Android or Netfliz prizes confers lots of value in terms of publicity, which can't be said of 10,000 small logo competitions.
One other note: Rentacoder, for instance, has specific rules prohibiting posting design comps or source code to prevent uncompensated work.
the price of entry isn't as much comparatively and again it's by choice
besides its not like u can't take off the company's name and just include the design in your portfolio. it still has some value
It's meeting a market need for good enough design (to me it's great) for the little cash most seed startups and people have. I get the impression that the designers against this feel that the design firms are going to go away... I don't feel that they will since they serve a different market
This is why people don't like speculative work.
And if you're working without a contract or some sort of document that states and works in the interest of both parties, then yes you're only hurting yourself.
Either/or, if you win the contest or not, doing the work is just great practice, and design is a skill you have to continue to work at. If you're not practicing your skill you're not worth anything to anybody.
I'm often impressed with the variety of good designs which show up for just $100-300 prize money.
Some alternatives come to mind, but none compelling in the long run:
- I need to practice anyway (but not in the long run, hopefully)
- I am the best and I will win (ok, maybe you deserve what you get)
- I want to be a designer, but nobody will pay me anyway, so at least I get to do my job for free (= ok, so it is a bum job, but I am a loser anyway, so I can't expect anything better).
Yeah I do agree that it's best for people honing their skills and experience; and for people living in low-cost places where payment in high value currency is worth it (rentacoder, elance, ...). Hell maybe it's fun for some designers like programming is fun for some programmers. What's wrong with that?
I'm still really confused over what I perceive to be antagonism towards contests (unless you own a mom & pop design firm)...
"low-cost" places: well, if they want to continue living in low-cost places, sure. But in general, even if you come from a cheap country, why should you be forced to work for little money like that, instead of doing proper consulting?
Doing it for fun: sure, if you have the time... I just think it would probably be more fun to do the same thing for real money and a real assignment. What in the "contest" makes it more fun than working for the client directly?
So the people that participate in 99designs should be the people that are undervalued in the marketplace, and 99designs helps to correct that.
Try inserting another profession into your sentence and see if it still sounds reasonable.
Here's one example from Google: http://code.google.com/android/adc.html
Here's one from Netflix: http://www.netflixprize.com/
The difference being instead of hours (or even days), programming contest submissions can take weeks or even months (and in some extreme cases - years) of work.
Engineers are subject to contests too: http://www.xprize.org/
They seem to be doing fine by me
You don't think the time spent on entries simply reflects the prize money involved? How much time would groups be putting into Netflix's contest if it was for a $250 prize?
Also notice how both Google and Netflix pay contestants along the way (Google giving $25,000 to fifty groups for completing the first phase, Netflix giving $50,000 each year to the group that makes the best improvement).
Those contests are legitimate contests. They are truly seeking creative and valuable entries. And they reward the winners with millions of dollars.
The "contests" at 99designs are just regular contract work where companies are trying to get as much labor for as little as possible.
these contests are the same as programming ones, the main difference being that the rewards and the time to complete a submission are lower
"Those contests are legitimate contests. They are truly seeking creative and valuable entries. "
So you're saying that creating a logo isn't creative and valuable to a company?
at the end of the day this is still about choice - something that you're ignoring
People choose to participate in these contests choose to. They're not forced to, and designers with better economic options won't participate. Just like most of the people here look down on rentacoder, elance, etc because we have better options, while there are plenty of programmers who use those sites to get experience, a little cash, etc.
It's a business, and it gets customers, so it can't be all bad.
There's no limit on the amount of design revisions you can get - it's over when you're satisfied.
http://99designs.com/contests/6774
It's #180.
Bookmarking now since the price looks to be pretty "right" too!
it's what brought me to the site
With this, you get the benefit of lots of people's input without an hourly "tic" as they work on it. You never know what a fresh perspective will give you!