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Comment by spork12 | Hacker News Reader

Kratom can ease opioid withdrawal it binds to the same receptors.

Opioid addicts use it to "get by" when they can't their drug of choice. It is also used to "boost" the high by combining it with other opioids.

It gives you the same euphoria as taking an opioid. In my opinion anything that gets you high is not a legit treatment for opioid dependence.

What worked for me when I finally kicked opioids a few years ago was to taper off using suboxone quickly over about 2 weeks to get past opioid withdrawal, and then over about a year you have to train your brain to be high on life instead of substances. Easier said than done, the 27th try was a charm. Clean for 2.5 yrs now.

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The big difference with kratom is the much lower lethality of kratom vs. other opioids. There are virtually no uncomplicated kratom fatalities. The closest thing to a kratom death I can find is this probable suicide attempt (combined with two antidepressants and DPH -- an opioid synergist):

https://academic.oup.com/jat/article/39/2/152/763622

That's not to say there aren't downsides:

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/2324709618765022

The thing with Kratom is that it's very dose-limiting. It tastes terrible, causes bad nausea, and makes you jittery. So let's say you have a dose of Kratom that you enjoy and you want more. You double it and you either puke it up before it all hits or it makes you so miserable you think twice before taking it again.

The real danger is in the so-called extracts, which distill and purify the active ingredient(s). But regular powdered Kratom is, IMHO, less harmful than marijuana and should be legal.

Interesting historical note about Kratom: it's traditionally used in SE Asia as a productivity drug. Farmers would take it to help them get through long days in the field. Much like how coca is used in the Andes.

Yes, the extracts are where you end up eventually.

It's true, being high on opioids increases productivity massively while you are high. I remember being able to code 12-18 hours a day, be excited to mow a 2 acre lawn with a push mower, etc. The problem is when you run out of money and are in withdrawal productivity drops to zero, it's hard to even get up to take a pee.

I have personally seen an entire friend group abuse buprenorphine recreationally. It doesn't produce the traditional opiate euphoria, but for people with little opioid tolerance it can be a very strong intoxicant.

From my experience, kratom is noticeably less euphoric than most opiates and doesn't cause as bad of side effects such as nausea and constipation.

Considering that difference and the big differences in price and availability (eg for people that lack access to healthcare), I believe there is a significant portion of people that could viably use kratom in lieu of buprenorphine, and ESPECIALLY in lieu of methadone.

I genuinely believe that the debate about kratom is framed squarely by those who seek to control the profits in addiction treatment.

For reference I am 7 years clean, and have "babysat" over a half dozen people through various stages of withdrawal from opiates, amphetamines and alcohol.

I have to agree with you on the debate being framed by the addiction treatment lobby. I don't have any direct proof, but I have heard scores of stories about "treatment salesmen" connecting to peoples mothers and grandfathers to offer help with their addicted relative. All to shuffle feet through specific treatment centers doors.

With that going on, I wouldn't doubt if it was the old "budweiser lobbying against weed" dealy.

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