Elon Musk offers to help Thai cave rescue | Hacker News Reader

Elon Musk offers to help Thai cave rescue

bbc.co.uk

54 pointsunklefolk61 comments

I don't really care even if he's doing this partly for pro-Tesla/Boring PR, it is nice to see such a prominent CEO take a public interest in this and other humanitarian problems (e.g. Puerto Rico disaster relief). Given his general tendency to speak out (for better or worse) about things having nothing to do with his work or business, I'm inclined to think his interest is personally genuine.

Off-topic: I really like the BBC's illustrated map of the cave. For a static image, really gives a lot of info about the scale and severity of the situation: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/146FC/production...

That is a great illustration! Thank you.

Only thing that would have made it better is if the cross sections showed water levels.

Cross-section: https://twitter.com/JamesWorldSpace/status/10151317727433687...

Another version: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes...

Dont take it too literally. Cave maps, paticularlythose under water, are hand-drawn. They cover key features needed for navigation but are not considered accurate for dimensions. Travel time means far more than accurate distances where underwater currents get involved. This is a large part of the digging problem: lining up the eyeballed drawing with an exact spot on the surface.

Jeez, the group is really really inside the cave, does anyone know if that was their intention or if they did so trying to escape from the flood?

The group of teenagers escaped from their supervisor into the cave without his permission. The supervisor went to look for them, they all got trapped there by the flood. Someone found their shoes in front of cave entrance.

How did they manage to get so deep just by themselves? Maybe easier to get down than to go back? :(

That's the first I heard this piece of the story. Source?

Entrepreneurs often do do this sort of thing. for example Andrew Forrest (Australian Mining Billionaire) has offered and assisted many times for disasters (bush fires, MH370 serach etc).

Seems to be something that driven guys just do

Why do people assume everything Elon does is a marketing/PR ploy? People said the same thing when Elon put his car in space. Pretty pessimistic view of humanity imo if you think people can't do something out of moral conscience. Not sure what Tesla has to do with saving Taiwanese out of a cave and boring company wont be operational for years.

You're really fighting against yourself by bringing up the space Tesla—an example with absolutely no humanitarian justification. The choice of a Tesla as a 'test' payload was 100% a marketing exercise and I do not know how anyone could argue otherwise (or if they have). There was no scientific or logistical benefit to using a Tesla, and in the bazar universe where it is, SpaceX's marketing machine spruced it well.

cool

Cynics will say this is a PR move, but I don't think that's how Musk operates. I think he sees a problem, thinks it's being solved inefficiently, has ideas he considers better, and wants to act quickly. It's the foundation of all his companies. It's a bit of a renegade/cowboy mentality, and some caution is warranted, but he thinks outside the box and acts on it more than most people.

>Cynics will say this is a PR move, but I don't think that's how Musk operates.

You can't be serious...

Musk's #1 trait, for better or worse, is promotion. Or do you really think he's the guy doing the engineering on all this stuff?

He says he spends the majority of his time on engineering, actually.

I dont know about others but I first heard of Musk as "the paypal guy who made a rocket". Felt like a sudden lucky-genius thing. Only recently I learned that he graduated in physics (energy storage or something not far). This changed my view of him substantially. He has flaws but I guess I can rely on his understanding of matter and moving objects.

>Only recently I learned that he graduated in physics (energy storage or something not far)

He has an undergraduate degree in Physics. There is no focus on "energy storage".

Sorry, material science in stanford, I didn't knoz he was at Upenn before that too and that he stopped at B.S (different terminology from France)

For someone who's number one trait is promotion (as you claim), he definitely seems to have achieved much more in his life (I mean, last 15 years) in engineering than most other marketers, promotoers, or, well, engineers.

>he definitely seems to have achieved much more in his life (I mean, last 15 years) in engineering than most other marketers, promotoers, or, well, engineers.

In what sense? Because the companies he runs do great engineering? Was Steve Ballmer a great engineer because Microsoft built great things? What about Steve Jobs?

Elon Musk is great at a crucial skill for CEOs: selling a vision.

> selling a vision

You mean, financing a vision? I don't see many other billionaires doing that (Gates & Buffet excluded).

>You mean, financing a vision?

Do you say that because his wealth is tied up in the companies? Yeah, and Zuckerberg "finances" Facebook, and Larry Ellison "finances" Oracle, and Larry and Sergy "finance" Google...

Tesla has sold vast amounts of equity and debt. That's how the company is financed.

No, becaues he spent his own earned/liquid wealth to start up and finance these companies, before they reached any level of success that enabled them to be financed externally.

Oh bollocks. Look at his twitter account, it's EXACTLY how he operates. He's a thin skinned narcissist, not dissimilar to Trump or Jordan Peterson. You'd think at his level of success he'd be above replying to everything bad written about him, but he's so fucking sensitive that he just jumps in there like a child.

I used to be a huge fan - this IS the Tesla and SpaceX guy, but man, follow him on Twitter long enough and you just want him to fuck off.

I see a lot of hate on Jordan Peterson. I'm not an unwavering fan, but I don't see what is so offensive about him. I also don't see him as a thin-skinned narcissist.

Again, look at the twitter account. These powerful, influential men are apparently so insecure that every piece of criticism warrants a personal response.

I don't ever get on twitter so maybe I don't have the same perspective. Could be the piece I am missing. I am not very interested in the social media aspect of these figures though.

EDIT: I will further add that I really don't think you can just take the bad without looking at the good. It is factual to say that he has helped many people learn to take personal responsibility and improve their lives. I don't think you can take that for granted. I don't necessarily trust everything he says but I'm not sure where the Trump comparison comes from. Whether you are a Trump fan or not, I don't think they are really comparable...

His skin seems thicker than yours at least, so I'm not sure you should be the one to judge...

>His skin seems thicker than yours at least, so I'm not sure you should be the one to judge...

Elon Musk has public events that demonstrate his thin-skin (unlike the poster you refer to). Like when he wrote journalists angrily because they didn't mention him as a co-founder of Tesla, even though, you know, he didn't co-found it?

As easy as it is to find hidden motives, PR, advertising, etc.

The truth is it also carries a huge risk. He is putting himself out there if they accept, and willing to take a shot. That has to be respected.

That was my first thought too. This is easily something that could backfire on Tesla/Boring if Thai officials take them up on their offer. It's already a very precarious situation and it may end up in tragedy despite any efforts from Musk or anyone. Sure, it's positive PR if things go well, but it's just as terrible if they don't.

And if they decline, and the kids die, then he can say "At least I offered help"

Is it really helpful for Elon Musk to spitball pie in the sky ideas on Twitter?

What does this actually achieve beyond generating PR hype for Elon and his companies?

If making a giant inflatable tunnel is a serious possibility, there are better ways to float the idea than throwing it out on Twitter.

There are other ways, but why are they better? He says it out loud, other people can chime in and improve the idea, the Thai gov't sees it without him having to work his way up through a bureaucracy to find someone who can do something about it, etc.

This seems as good a way as any to do it to me.

I think that his twitter-hype did help in Australia's case.

I'm annoyed by musk being all over the place touting technology. But as long as he doesn't impede the actual rescue why not.

Also the tube idea is probably the fastest and easiest to sustain the group survival.

> Also the tube idea is probably the fastest and easiest to sustain the group survival.

Is it? How much experience do you have in cave rescues? How much experience does Elon have in cave rescues?

What if they go with his suggestion, due to pressure from the publicity, and it turns into a disaster?

First keep calm.

Second diagrams showed they were thinking about drilling down (1/4 of a mile deep).

I can't imagine drilling being safer than passing a tube to the chamber.

I have no experience nor knowledge. I still claim that.

ps: I don't think Thai government is stupid to just follow some random celebrity. They have educated people there too. Musk is only saying he has drilling machines and powerbanks... that's all.

I think he is also offering to ship powerpacks and pumps, in case pumping is limited by available power and equipment.

To be quiet frank, I don't like Twitter, but it Musk doesn't know who to ask, this is hands down the easiest way to get someone on the phone. He literally writes this down and can get a network of people talking to get back to him. This might actually be one thing Twitter is useful for.

I'm not a big fan of this. If he wants to help, he knows who to ask, I'm sure they'd take his calls. If he wants to act like a big man on twitter... well he's doing a good job- and that's not really very impressive.

His most recent tweet (not cited in the original article):

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1015138953693880320

> SpaceX & Boring Co engineers headed to Thailand tomorrow to see if we can be helpful to govt. There are probably many complexities that are hard to appreciate without being there in person.

Major decisions are communicated by CEOs, Presidents, etc on twitter first, welcome to the 21st century.

>Major decisions are communicated by CEOs, Presidents, etc on twitter first, welcome to the 21st century.

Can you name anyone who uses Twitter this way besides Donald Trump and Elon Musk?

Because, although I am not a lawyer, there are legal ramifications to disseminating information on social media. For example:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/23/donald-trump-can...

It's OK to offer help and make a statement that you are offering help.

It's bad idea to pitch solutions publicly on Twitter. Musk could contact the rescuers and provide solution options privately. It's very easy to create chaos and political pressure when politicians, relatives and others are demanding why are you not doing like Musk says.

"Musk could contact the rescuers and provide solution options privately."

How? What if he doesn't have contacts and doesn't want one of his assistants putting a bunch of time into finding the single contact needed. He literally talked to them instantly, anyone who knows the people working on this can get back to him directly, Musk didn't even know their name.

It's very easy to make these contacts quicly if you are recognized entity in the field.

Call to Thai embassy would be the first step.

Partly PR (like everything he does) and such unflattering things, but also partly an exercise of the ability (read "ubiquitous nerd dream" if you like) of thinking up outrageous solutions to pressing problems (e.g. inflatable "bouncy castle" air tunnel), which in this case differs from the usual in that said nerd is very rich (and also owns technology and employs people with skills appropriate to the problem) so the outrageous solution has some chance of actually being implemented in the real world

This differs from the option mentioned by someone else of "calling the right people" (perhaps by donating a chunk of money to send conventional rescue personnel/equipment) instead of flashily taking matters into his own hands: this is a display of ingenuity/out-of-the-box thinking/"a tunnel-making company that everyone says is a bad idea saved actual lives, see?" first (again, read something like "nerd saviourism" or a restricted form of "tech solutionism" if you like) and philanthropy second.

Similar idea to pushing his batteries in Puerto Rico, and also explains his lack of interest in Flint (often mentioned on Twitter) or similar humanitarian concerns, and hence his difference from a certain "philanthropic billionaire" stereotype exemplified by Gates and Buffett: he doesn't own a company that claims it can purify water in a way everyone thinks is either overpriced or stupid, so "those things would prove nothing". (A silly prediction along these lines: if there ever is some sort of emergency in the near future that requires transporting something very quickly from A to B, faster than a cargo airplane (and insert other wildly improbable things here), I'd expect him to offer to do the "NYC to Tokyo in 30 min" thing for free.)

It is great that he is volunteering to help, but him publicly presenting himself as a savior prior to actually accomplishing the solutions makes me just roll my eyes and think less of him for doing anything for the limelight. Sure if he does go out and solves the problem, then afterwards is the proper time to put out a press release and brag.

I'm still waiting for him to work out the kinks with his cars' autopilot and get his promised "hyperloop" that he loves talking about finally deployed.

Speaking as a caving hobbyist, I think it's rather stupid. Yes you can tweet about your ideas but that doesn't make you actually helped because there's no sign of you being a speleology specialist or any other expertises of wilderness rescue. Those are prior requirements to differ you from a normal guy in the web. Here's a proper rescue case [0], althought there's no cave diving involved.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riesending_cave_rescue

I like the engineering side of the problem. if I understand it properly, the greatest danger is that even when two professional divers will accompany each boy through the passage, if that child panicks in a narrow underwater section, there is risk both three may get drown. I imagine that they can try to infuse each child with some calm-down preparate to prevent panick, in such a manner that child will be still able to use his own muscles to walk.

Its really good that he can and wants to help, I can almost picture him shouting "Thunderbirds are go!"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44695232

If he can make something happen, it'd be a huge win-win for everyone, not to mention insanely good PR for Tesla.

>not to mention insanely good PR for Tesla.

Yeah, good PR as a deflection of his Donald Trump routine the past couple days of attacking journalists who have criticized Tesla on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1014964102672801792

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1014923546210938880

https://twitter.com/lopezlinette/status/1014983757252780033

Business Insider has formally denied these allegations, but what does it matter in this day age of social media? The author is getting attacked by Tesla fans, death threats, misogynistic comments. It's off the rails. I don't know how people root for this guy, but here we are.

If they bring him in and he saves these people, I would hope you eat your words. Nobody is perfect, but Musk tends be serious when he offers to do something.

>If they bring him in and he saves these people, I would hope you eat your words.

And if more journalists get murdered, I hope you eat yours.

Why is this thread flagged?

I flagged it because it's high on controversy (repetitive debating of Elon Musk's motives and merits) and low on intellectual curiosity - which is what is meant to be HN's core focus.

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