is it just me or the amount of bigotry in the comments here is ridiculous?
some people do business differently, get over it. Not everyone agrees with the western "politically correct" approach to life, and that's ok.
some people do business differently, get over it. Not everyone agrees with the western "politically correct" approach to life, and that's ok.
"“The more guys, the less safe the girl is. When there are other men in the room [for sex], it’s like the men are competing with each other, and they get rougher, so the girls can get really hurt.“"
Not much need for bigotry to see that if people get "really hurt" in an inter-company bonding event, something must be wrong.
I disagree. IMO consensual sex is fine (however BDSM it is), non-consensual sex is bad. Arguing the degree of badness, while sometimes useful, is (1) not relevant to the above discussion, and (2) a second-order effect, so vastly less important anyways.
But when it isn't consensual, the harm done makes the situation that much worse.
What about the ones who were forced into it?
I guess it would be better for everyone if the interviewee is asked "You might have to participate in, err, hard parties. Would you be okay with it?"
The other thing you have to consider is these can be much worse for women and minorities than straight men.
If you did business in Asia, you would quickly realize this attitude is ridiculous for any number of reasons, not the least being strip club visits.
Asian business is all about maintaining and saving face. When in China once, our factory rep offered to us let pick where to go get food. We chose four places and got "hmm, no, don't think that would work well for you" until we chose a place and they agreed. When we got there, our names were placed and the restaurant was clearly waiting for our group.
The entire thing was a sham and set up from the beginning to force us into a choice. But they wanted us to have the feeling of control, even if we immediately knew it was bullshit. They're not stupid.
Directness like you talk about is simply not acceptable when it comes to any number of negotiating tactics. This is something you learn very quickly if you do logistics or sales in China, or you simply just don't get any work.
>> The other thing you have to consider is these can be much worse for women and minorities than straight men.
Chinese businessmen don't care about this. Just because Americans do, or it's the right thing to do, doesn't make it something that's going to happen.
It is not so much that it is politically incorrect, it is more that you can't simultaneously claim that this is how it is and is ok while also claim that everything is totally fair and demographic composition is not influenced by any of this.
Not just gender, also religious as it selects people with certain values - good traditional Christian boy saving himself for marriage is f-cked too.
We should certainly work towards improving ourselves but I dont think we can grow unless we learn to respect each other's differences, even when we dont like them.
Certainly nobody is coercing anyone into going to strip clubs to close business deals and you can always walk away. Of course you will be walking away from a business opportunity but life is full of hard choices. We don't get to change the rules of the game just because we don't like the outcome.
I used to believe that people dont have right to try to change rules of the game, but not anymore. Rules are tilted towards those who are willing to change them and this ideology equals ideology of passivity and submission.
Certainly, people are entitled to try to change rules, because current rules are result of human activity - someone else setting rules in his favor in the past.
Again, you make your own choices. If it is more important what people 'claim' about you, instead of how you feel about urself then it seems to me like somebody needs to readjust his moral compass and drop the 'what they are doing is not fair and just'. The hard truth is that people are not really complaining about the morality of the game, but about the fact that they don't get to play it because they have to keep their politically correct appearances.
> I used to believe that people dont have right to try to change rules of the game, but not anymore. Rules are tilted towards those who are willing to change them and this ideology equals ideology of passivity and submission.
You are absolutely right, I expressed myself poorly. What I meant is that that's the game they are playing. You are welcome to try and change it, but don't go crying (and claiming the moral high ground) when you are kicked out and defeated anyway.
In effect, it is a way how the system based on strip clubs defends itself from being exchanged for one that depends more on skills, abilities and work.
And absolutely, one reason people who can't get in due to own values (you will be shock to hear it exists) or social pressure from church is that they don't get to get business. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that motivation. That is how the world works, people tend to be interested in issues that affect them.
The idea that you have to be totally selfles in all motivations and circumstances to have right to have and push for values you consider important is wrong. Caring about social status or money does not make you hypocritical nor oblige you to be silent on what you disagree with. Most humans care about something like that to at least some extend. That is just another idea designed to silence opposition.
I also think it is ok to claim high moral ground when you lost, assuming you had high moral ground. It is totaly fine and even freespeech right to talk about experience, complain and generally not give up.