Nasa to test ‘quiet’ supersonic flights over Texas
cnn.com
cnn.com
As a fluid dynamicist, I'd say closer to the opposite is true. The shapes might look good, but ask a person not trained in basic fluid dynamics to explain what makes a particular shape aerodynamic and they'll likely do poorly.
Boundary layer separation phenomena seems to be inherently unintuitive. I can recall talking about aerodynamics with someone very smart but untrained in the field. They seemed focused on the high pressure zone created in front, with no consideration of the size of the low pressure zone in the back. (In a simplified view of the problem.) If the boundary layer separates prematurely, it creates a larger low pressure zone and increases drag. So the shape of the back of an object matters to its drag. There's a reason airfoils are elongated and not just smooth fronts with abrupt ends.
And the intuitive understanding most people have would not suggest that roughening an object could decrease its drag. But this is a well known phenomena explained by boundary layer separation as well.
(Note that I don't know much anything about supersonic aerodynamics and what I say here is only what I know about subsonic aerodynamics. I am not an aerodynamicist, just a guy who works broadly in fluid dynamics.)
He didn't claim that our innate appreciation for specific forms might imply that we make good decisions about how to find more.
What he did say was that our degree of appreciation for proven designs, founded in evidence, seems to show that, as animals, we have buttons buried deep within us, that these designs manage to push.
We all seem to like the same thing, once someone finds it or figures it out, even without knowing specifically why. Certain shapes and designs seem to transcend language, education, formal training and analytical judgement.
There are rule sets that seem to appeal to us, instictively, and yet spaceships are not bound by those "rules of instinctive appeal" even though qualitatively, we can't state what those rules are or where they come from.
The mystery, regarding where that post-hoc appeal comes from is what's interesting.
Not that people aren't master draftsman, and materials scientists out of the womb.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears%E2%80%93Haack_body
Yet I'm not aware of anyone who is. In fact, the Sears-Haack body is basically a toothpick, which makes it ugly as far as I'm concerned.
There's a simpler explanation for why airplane designs are often beautiful. Ugly designs typically don't sell as well. So designers look for something beautiful and at least reasonably efficient. In this view, there's no particular connection between the beauty of the design and its efficiency.
I know that for car designs, we've known empirically for nearly 100 years how to make a very low drag body shape. And most car shapes on the market are far from optimal. While I've had arguments with people about why the most efficient shapes don't appear on the market (e.g., someone argued they'd have less cargo capacity, which I don't agree with), ultimately, few people want to drive a car that looks like a fish or something else that's strange. I imagine a similar phenomena occurs with planes.
This design is very efficient, but the company folded after about 6 years:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aptera_2_Series
Personally, I don't find the design attractive. And I doubt your average HN reader feels as compelled by the design as they do about the latest Tesla, for example.
That aerodynamics is counterintuitive is fairly well accepted among fluid dynamicists. Watch this classic series of videos from MIT:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=j0rQ4F3f-Ic
I have not watched the videos, but I did read the associated book, and it goes into detail about the counterintuitiveness.
Engineering is a form of Art.
I.e. we have an innate ability to identify a good swimmer's body, because we as a species are (potentially) good swimmers.
Yes, it's a hodgepodge of ballistics, orbital and celestial mechanics, and other factors relating to spacecraft navigation.
[Episode summary]
> Concorde is gone, what will replace it? Time for a Geek Out! Richard talks about the aeronautical evolution that led to supersonic airliners, Concorde being the big one that flew from 1976 to 2003. What went wrong? Why did it stop flying? Besides the technological challenges, it all comes down to the sonic boom and laws that make it illegal to fly a civilian aircraft above the speed of sound. Richard talks about how technology has advanced enough now that aircraft can mitigate their sonic boom with specific shapes and flying capabilities. However, in the end, supersonics only get you there faster, typically for more money. Would you pay for to go faster?
A one-way trip on Concorde was about $5000, and for that money, you got an old-school business-class seat (they never updated the interior of Concorde), no overhead bins, no internet access, no entertainment system of any kind. For that same money, you get the all-encompassing cocoon of the modern business-class pod on a 787. It may take twice as long, but you don't care because you're comfortable.
Meantime, we're getting closer to manned hypersonic flight, Mach 5+ with combined cycle engines. Considering the development time necessary for a new airliner, especially with experimental technology like new supersonic engines, I think the LockMarts and Boeings of the world are waiting for more of that technology to mature. It would suck to develop a brand new Mach 2 airliner just in time for someone else to build a Mach 5 airliner.
Also, the Mach 5 designs using ramjets would fly high enough (>80,000 feet) that sonic booms are really not an issue. The SR-71 at Mach 3 and 80,000 feet was virtually inaudible.
Much of the experimentation going on around shaping sonic booms is proving contemporary fluid dynamic models that show that you can "customize" your N-Wave and make the kind of boom you want to make.
Interesting times!
OK so Boom has raised 47.3M so far according to techcrunch which is ... nothing? Even something as relatively simple as the Sukhoi Superjet 100 had a program cost of 1.5B. I can't even imagine how much a supersonic jet will cost.
There are Boom engineers lurking around HN, probably one of them can pitch in and comment.
I didn't know there was a citizen-scientist branch of this operation. (NASA did announce their plans earlier this year.) I'm actually quite excited about this happening.
This project, if successful, could be a 'Wright brothers' moment for supersonic travel and would dramatically cut down inter-continental travel time, thereby propelling the aviation industry into stratosphere and increasing the global financial throughput as a result of decreased flying duration -- in the next decade or so.
[0] https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/concordesst/concorde-s-envir...
And the chances for electrification are even more remote than for subsonic planes -- at least its conceivable that electric propeller planes could work, in 50 years or so.
I agree with your assertion that complete electrification of the aviation industry is several decades away, but a hybrid solution should be optimally feasible given the advances in battery density and related industries. [0]
[0] http://www.eenewseurope.com/news/hybrid-electric-aircraft-ne...
One idea I recall from Virgin Airlines a while back was to have planes towed around the airport so they didn't have to burn fuel on the ground. Ah here we go (2006!) :
What I'm saying is that I don't see these technologies allowing supersonic speeds, meaning supersonic=fossil.
https://soundcloud.com/user-291478498
It's well worth a listen, as are the other episodes in the series.
That's an odd way to describe the most accessible era of global travel in human history. It's not like first class tickets, which provide a comparable experience at a comparable inflated-adjusted price, aren't available to bring back the 60s.
There are more travelers who want a cheaper ticket than there are those who want, more than cheaper tickets, (a) more comfort or (b) faster travel. Evidence for this is in the demand for cheap tickets with long layovers and repeat flyers in basic economy.
Then I chuckled at the annoyance since I, myself, had decided to get the dirt-cheapest flight available. Couldn't even be bothered to pay +$15 for an emergency exit seat.
...And I would've done it all the same again for that 2 hour flight.
I just saw a Reddit thread where someone asked how many people would pay extra for a flight with no babies allowed. I had to roll my eyes at every commenter who said they would.
— Louis CK
There are two airports an equal distance from my house. One has cheap flights, and the other does not. The one with the cheap flights also happens to be the airport for Walt Disney World.
I fly out of the expensive airport whenever possible.
A Business Class ticket on an international route is incomparably luxurious compared to anything you could purchase in the 1960s. And some of the First Class products take it to the next level. That's before you take into account the safety, time-saving, and cabin-pressure differences.
Aside: personally I'm waiting for someone to take up the Avrocar, aka the original flying saucer UFO. It's basically the jet version of the helicopter or quadricopter drone from an aero engineering tradeoff standpoint. At one point the Army thought that they'd stop buying jeeps and start buying flying saucers instead, but the Avrocar project fell apart for dynamical stability reasons. It was just too difficult to keep it in level flight during flying regime transitions, and they weren't able to design a control interface a human could use to compensate. But that was with 50's tech, and I'm pretty sure with modern ML techniques you could design a fly-by-wire feedback response control system that would have no trouble stabilizing Avrocar or an improved version of it, just like Stanford got a helicopter to fly upside down (a very analogous stability regime actually). It would fill the niche for medium-distance drone transport or perhaps short-range personnel transport (like choppers).
And saving fuel is in everyone's best interest.
> started as a luxury and moved to mass market
These two objectives are contradictory. There are so many more trips because the fares are cheap, so fuel consumption is much increased.
(Of course, I don't doubt that a lot of trips happen today which wouldn't have happened in the 60's, so you're probably still correct.)
https://www.yaleclimateconnections.org/2015/09/evolving-clim...
I feel like Europe should return the favor should this ever result in an airliner.
An incredible achievement of technology and engineering, but an environmental disaster.
> Passengers seated next to each other could have a conversation only with difficulty, and those seated two seats apart could not hear each other even when screaming and had to pass hand-written notes instead. Noise in the back of the aircraft was unbearable. Alexei Tupolev acknowledged the problem to foreign passengers and promised to fix it, but never had the means to do so.
We live near a US Air Force base, we had a single sonic boom last year and the base put out a tweet/statement apologizing, and the pilot got written up.
During national security incidents like 9/11 all bets are off.
[0] https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/44759/do-usaf-f...
But yeah, it's a breakthrough...
Oh look https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive
No one mentions as well that the optimum form factor for such a technology consists in two round plates facing each other (wink-wink).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_sonic_boom_tests
It seems that the military have more money than sense to pursue a failed idea that isn't going to help win The War Against CO2 levels. Only in America.