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Comment by canardlaquay | Hacker News Reader

"Arab Andy" cared more about the donation than his own life. He clearly let the bomb sound happen on purpose for the sake of fame. He didn't even bother muting it or at least muffling it.

Weakly moaning "It's TTS!" (Text-to-speech) as an excuse to the officer that arrested him not so long later is enough of a proof that this guy was disconnected from reality and just doing that for the money.

It doesn't matter where you're coming from, you just don't play a bomb countdown - especially not in a room crowded full of people. You're scaring people on purpose, and that's called terrorism. He deserves that prison sentence.

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Isn't one of the main caveats of the first amendment that you can't say "Fire" or "Bomb" in a crowded theater?

As someone who watches live streams normally, it's weird to see the clashing of the online world with its disdain for social norms and encouragement of casual racism mix in with the normal day to day lives of people. A future where a good chunk of people walking on the streets are disconnected from the people around them and instead are trying to please a faceless mob which demands that life constantly be reality TV is a weird one to think about but I honestly believe that this is a future that is possible.

> Isn't one of the main caveats of the first amendment that you can't say "Fire" or "Bomb" in a crowded theater?

It's a complicated and, IMO, interesting topic.[0][1]

[0] - https://www.popehat.com/2012/09/19/three-generations-of-a-ha...

[1] - https://legaltalknetwork.com/podcasts/make-no-law/2018/06/fi...

I confess to having read the Popehat link quickly (I do not have audio right now to be able to listen to the podcast) and it is possible I missed some subtext, but the link seems more to speak to that the quote was made in a context many today would find disagreeable as part of a series of bad rulings, and that it has subsequently often been invoked to support restrictions on speech as though the existence of some restriction on speech automatically justifies others. Both points are well taken.

But this is quite literally a situation where a person shouts about a fake threat so as to cause alarm in a crowded fora -- the article does not seem to argue that doing so would be legal or that it would not be a permissible restriction on speech.

So I defer to anyone who knows more than I do about speech law -- to be clear, it is still impermissible to (falsely) shout fire in a crowded theater, right?

> it is still impermissible to (falsely) shout fire in a crowded theater, right?

The underlying point is that, it's a complicated topic that is not easily answered. This is like saying "Shooting someone is illegal, right?" Well, it's complicated. You have Murder 1, Murder 2, (sometimes more), Manslaughter (Voluntary, or Involuntary), and you have shootings of self-defense which are legal. It entirely depends on the circumstances under which you shout "Fire!" and the outcome of that situation.

There are legal principles involving whether or not you caused harm, whether or not you intended to cause harm, whether or not you reasonably knew it could cause harm but proceeded anyway. These questions will have outcome on which charges are applicable, if any are at all.

Should you shout fire in a crowded theater, and folks stampede. Expect to be charged for inciting a riot or at least disturbing the peace. Should nothing happen? You might be asked to leave and not come back by staff and have a no-trespass order, you may even get picked up on a disturbing the peace charge. One of the "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride" situations.

It is not quite literal that you can't say "Fire" etc

http://civil-liberties.yoexpert.com/civil-liberties-general/...

There are however issues that are not related to just speech. There are property rights issues for the owner of the establishment if you create panic, which results in damages to people or property.

For example there is likely no literal law against the following; however, you would likely be at similar fault if you walked into a crowded theatre with a live hornets nest. It is not so much what you say, but the damage which results you would be responsible for.

> weird to see the clashing of the online world with its disdain for social norms and encouragement of casual racism mix in with the normal day to day lives of people.

This is most likely to be resolved by normal life increasing in its disregard for norms and explicit racism, until someone gets lynched for the benefit of streaming hits.

> You're scaring people on purpose, and that's called terrorism.

Well, no, that's not terrorism. At least not in terms of criminal charges[0].

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_terrorism#Unite...

What do you think would (or for you, should) happen if Orson Welles performed War of the Worlds today?

The device would show a "radio play" notice for the duration of the performance?

So if someone calls you and you're using speakerphone and they say something bad you should be arrested?

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