That's not true. The law only applies to "content sharing service providers" (sites like YouTube, SoundCloud, Instagram, Megaupload and so on).
Do you want to try to build a startup today taking on YouTube knowing that the legal system is a complex mess and if you make any mistake, you'll be sued out of a company? Will any VC want to fund you in those conditions?
And what makes this website not a "content sharing service provider"? All the site does is share links to content. And since linking to content will now obligate paying the person you link to, hackernews will have to start finding a way to monetize just to pay for all of the linking it does.
The law clearly states that the size of the company and the costs of the "measures" should be taken into account, so that shouldn't be an issue.
> if you make any mistake, you'll be sued out of a company?
If you can prove that you've tried that you're not liable anymore and therefore can't be sued.
> what makes this website not a "content sharing service provider"? All the site does is share links to content.
You kind of answered your own question there.
> And since linking to content will now obligate paying the person you link to
No idea where this linking myth comes from. Commercial websites now have to pay a license fee when they publish substantial portions of press publications.
Source: http://www.consilium.europa.eu/media/35373/st09134-en18.pdf
Umm, no. It doesn't stop it being an issue. The wording is ambiguous and this is risk that needs consideration when embarking on a venture. This law has definitely added at least friction to competing startups, and a barrier to entry at worst.
That's a bit of an understatement especially if you consider how bad the law looks from a PR standpoint, how unlikely it is to actually benefit any of the big content producers and so on. I've actually been on the record saying the law will never happen because of how stupid and useless it is but obviously I've been wrong.
Anyway as far as ambiguity goes I think they do that on purpose to ensure a judge has the last word. I'm pretty sure this is supposed to stop trolls from suing little companies into oblivion rather than the other way around.
Text: "should be effective but remain proportionate, in particular with regard to the size of the online content sharing service provider."
But this is exactly the wrong level of detail; it's not a reassurance because you and I and startups can have no idea what the level actually is. If they'd said "less than X employees or turnover less than X" it would be a specification. Instead it's horrible, expensive vagueness.
>> All the site does is share links to content.
> You kind of answered your own question there.
So we should expect HN to block Europe if this goes through, because otherwise they're liable for all copyright infringement of any linked page?
It's intentionally vague, because these laws only ever come into play if someone really messes up or is intentionally being deceptive..
If you set an exact limit or try and set exact definitions, people try and use them to create loopholes.. which I personally find to be a very American thing to do.
If you're actively making an effort trying to filter content, you have nothing to worry about. If it can be shown that you're intentionally trying to game the system, you can land in trouble.
It's pretty simple, really.
But you do: you have to worry about filtering content. And you can never know whether you've made enough effort.
You have to have a process, and devote human time to it, and (as I understand it) do so proactively rather than just responding to takedown requests.
No, of course not. Like I said above, the "link tax" part (article 11) has nothing to do with linking. But even if it would, it still wouldn't have anything to do with the content filter law part (article 13). They're two completely separate things.
Here's a UK case where a large chain was serving beer using glasses that were too small.
That chain hasn't been shut down, nor fined huge amounts. They weren't even prosecuted. They recalled all the glasses nationwide and replaced them with the correct size.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/03/pint-scam-major-...
This kind of regulation is not unusual.
EDIT just for clarification: I think this is a lousy law, and I hope it doesn't pass in its current form.
With any website (hackernews included) the only way they can actually completely prevent there from being copyrighted content in the comments that they host and publish is to not offer the ability to comment at all.
We don't really need to link something to express an opinion
BTW HN have to check anyway, if I post a link to an obscure video sharing platform containing copyrighted material, that's an infringement
Even if the domain is whitelisted, say github.com, I could host copyrighted material there
They simply don't do it and rely on users's good faith
Web sites are already responsible for copyright infringements committed by their users
I’m Swiss American. My fellow Swissmen are similarly sceptical.
The realistic risk isn’t someone fining everyone a billion dollars. It’s that you didn’t curry sufficient political favour with the right regulator and now get to see their capricious side. These are a legitimate concerns for anyone considering doing business in Europe.
Almost every website is a commercial endeavor to the point where they use ad revenue to pay the costs of operating.
By substantial portion you mean the little paragraph that helps you figure out which link contains the information you want to click on? Because people who are driving traffic to your website should obviously promote you for free AND pay you.
Quit shilling for your incompetent politicians.
If the website just posts what's inside the RSS feed it's ok.
If they extract meaning from the complete web page, that's a different story.
Yes, it's tough. Try to build a car company. Or a toys company. Or really, any kind of consumer goods company you may think of. They all bring with them that kind of hassle as package when having to deal with masses. The masses wanted better protection and they are getting it, everything else comes second. The wilderness was fun while it lasted, eh?
The solution to the new EU laws is fairly simple. Block any and all traffic coming from the EU. That's what I'm planning on implementing with all of my future side projects and website.
It was already really hard
It's not harder now
> Will any VC want to fund you in those conditions?
I don't think VCs are the best way to fund a startup
In Europe there's less emphasis on chasing or becoming unicorns
More to the point, who is this helping? There's records sales being set all over the place every year.
"(4b) ‘online content sharing service provider’ means a provider of an information society service one of the main purposes of which is to store and give access to the public to copyright protected works or other protected subject-matter uploaded by its users, which the service optimises. Services acting in a non-commercial purpose capacity such as online encyclopaedia, and providers of online services where the content is uploaded with the authorisation of all rightholders concerned, such as educational or scientific repositories, should not be considered online content sharing service providers within the meaning of this Directive. Providers of cloud services for individual use which do not provide direct access to the public, open source software developing platforms, and online market places whose main activity is online retail of physical goods, should not be considered online content sharing service providers within the meaning of this Directive;"
> one of the main purposes of which is to store and give access to the public to copyright protected works or other protected subject-matter uploaded by its users
That sounds like it includes comments by users (since their comments would be automatically copyrighted)
> the content is uploaded with the authorisation of all rightholders concerned
The owner of a comment board has no way of knowing if their users will include (in their comments) content to which they don't have the authorisation to do so.
It seems pretty clear to me that it applies to comment boards.