Comment by reverend_gonzo | Hacker News Reader

Comment by reverend_gonzo | Hacker News Reader

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> Eventually the stress came to a head and I vehemently told my boss that I thought the task I was being told to do was idiotic. I requested to go home for the day sick for mental health reasons, as I was unable to cope with the stress that moment.

I've done this too. However, you have to be prepared to walk or be prepared to buckle down and do the work. At the end of the day, they are paying you to do what they want you to do.

> I said "I would like to kill [someone who is my friend at Amazon]."

Sure, maybe you said it in a moment of passion, but there is no way in hell they can just let that slide.

> During that time I told anyone who would listen at Amazon what happened.

Also, no chance in hell that a company is going to continue letting you do this, and in many cases you would be fired on the spot.

This is 100% on you, and sure, due to stress, but your story showed that Amazon was actually a lot more forgiving than many companies would be.

As stated, I did continue to work and do what I was asked despite the extreme stress. I did not walk out the door when refused to be allowed to leave for the day. I do agree that as an employee my job is to do what I am directed whether I like it or not.

I agree that they cannot let such a statement slide, and that is why I said it, because nothing else I said in the week before this was acted on. I was ignored in every other plea for some sort of intervention. My manager could, though, have simply asked me if I meant that and I would have explained that, no, I was just upset. We could have walked over to the person I was even referring to and worked it out immediately on the spot. I told him about when I came back to work and he was sad and had no hard feelings towards me.

I agree no company would allow it. They would look for a legal way to get rid of anyone saying such things. I told them as much. That said, listing that as the reason for termination is not legal. I did do my job in a professional sense. Freely sharing what I believe to people who listen is free speech. You cannot legally be fired for your opinions that do not affect your work; at least not as the listed reason.

I could have simply been terminated with no cause listed. That they did not due that is great; but it was not out of any caring for me. That is simply the way the company works; which I agree is a good thing.

The worst part is that my story is not unique. The level of stress and resulting poor mental health is, in my opinion, very high there. I don't think they are doing what is necessary to improve that. ( despite trying )

> Freely sharing what I believe to people who listen is free speech. You cannot legally be fired for your opinions that do not affect your work; at least not as the listed reason.

Your employer is not obligated to enable or allow you to be spending your work day complaining about them instead of working under the guise of "free speech".

As a full time employee I am not paid for hours worked, I am paid for the work performed; for results. As such, it is common and typical for employees like me to be allowed to engage in any number of "non work" activities to help maintain stress and keep productivity up.

That is something that has been true at nearly every company I have worked at. Amazon is not different in that regard, at least not on the teams I was involved with there.

There are a lot of social events at Amazon. I did not spend my work time approaching random people at their desks to mouth off to them. That would be weird and stupid. I simply shared it with people during social conversations at social events where we are encouraged to interact with others.

During social events, I am quite sure that free speech covers what I say.

While that is true, you will find that employers can, and do, fire employees for comments made, at work, or otherwise, that reflect poorly on the employer.

And in these cases, when challenged, they have been found to have the right to do so.

Free speech rights regard the ability of the government to restrict your speech, not your employer.

Free speech rights also do not come with "freedom from consequences of such speech".

"That said, listing that as the reason for termination is not legal. I did do my job in a professional sense. Freely sharing what I believe to people who listen is free speech. You cannot legally be fired for your opinions that do not affect your work; at least not as the listed reason."

I'm generally on your side here, but that statement is absolute bullshit. Your employer also has the right of free association, and can choose to no longer associate with someone who states they wish they could commit violent acts against their coworkers, regardless of how serious those statements are.

I agree that an employer can fire anyone they choose, but if they do list a reason that reason has to be in a legal subset of possible reasons.

That is why most states are "at-will", meaning that they don't need to list any reason. I am not saying that they could not fire me; they certainly could have. They simply cannot list the reason officially as "because you told people about this event that happened and gave your opinion on it".

If they said "we believe the employee is violent and threatening" that would be a valid reason. I am not. I may get upset and stressed but I have never laid a hand on anyone in my life. There is no evidence to support the claim that I am violent, because it isn't true.

There are also more complex things going on here than just whether or not I can be fired and they can "get away with it". The real issue is that they don't want anyone to know what happened because it makes them look bad.

For that, it actually doesn't matter if I am a raving lunatic or not. The simple fact is they want to cover up the whole situation and make it go away. That is the worst part of all of it.

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