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Comment by have_faith | Hacker News Reader

For every website a client has asked me to check SEO reports and the like, I get 0 requests to check accessibility or any mention of it. I do my best to make what I build accessible with the time I have, but clients (and many employers) seem blind to it. Has anyone had any success with getting accessibility taken more seriously in these contexts?

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Accessibility is never a problem until it is. And it will be a problem - eventually, every single time. My last two companies, i pleaded with them to think about it before it became a problem. They ignored me, and two years later - in both cases, I kid you not, we got named in ADA action and lost tons of money/time trying to respond. You don't get to choose whether or not you get sued under ADA, you just will as a matter of course (the bigger you are, the sooner). What you can choose to do is be thoughtful about it early, and see it as an opportunity to make your site better for everyone.. the thing is a lot of the a11y stuff you need to do is good for every user. ... or you can wait until you get sued and have your operations grind to an agonizing halt as you try to figure out how to undo the mess of years of bad coding in a massive whole-site rewrite.

Show them that lawsuits are happening more and more due to precedent set in many states that ADA regulations for buildings and such also apply to websites.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/legalnewsline/2017/06/13/first-...

Nope. It is deeply misunderstood across the 'industry'. Blank stares ensue.

There is opportunity in this as SEO (a 'service' that can be sold) really depends on accessibility. I find people still concerned with 'keyword frequency' and whether they have their H1 tags in the right place when it comes to 'SEO'. Nobody is talking about making the web better for everyone (which includes the customers with no accessibility problems) and that being the central plank of better sales.

A further problem is that web 'design' agencies do not have the sales staff to sell accessibility. The pitch should not be that hard given that the baby boomer generation have all the money and need spectacles to read anything closer than arms-length away.

I also have yet to see anyone offering accessibility audit services where a genuine, registered partially sighted person does the auditing and testing. This could be end to end, i.e. ordering the product and returning it, with all emails checked along the way, complete with physical packaging.

We assume 'we know best' and that we know what a screen-reader user would want rather than reach out to anyone who is practically blind and ask them what they think. Patronising!!!

Those services definitely exist. I’ve used the DAC[1] in Cardiff before for indepth review from expert users of assistive tech, but I’ve also taken part in standard user research with people with accessibility needs (ranging from blindness to motor problems to severe dyslexia). One thing to bear in mind when doing user research like that is that bringing people into your lab won’t work: people who use assistive tech setups tend to customise them to fit their needs, so you need to get out and observe ‘in the field’ if possible.

[1] http://digitalaccessibilitycentre.org/

The http://digitalaccessibilitycentre.org/ website is awful. Efforts like this give accessibility a bad name.

Accessibility isn't about designing websites that are exclusively for special needs people. It is about making websites work for everyone, whatever device they are on. Part of that ethos is sticking to convention.

So what is so awful?

The navigation is awful. It changes from the homepage to one of the other pages.

Their use of mini-font sizes is also a bit silly.

Even the URL structure is a bit silly, nobody needs to have index.php in a URL to make it mysteriously more accessible.

Their headings have line heights that mean 2-line headings are mangled together.

If you run a outline on their pages the content does not reflect what is shown.

I would be embarrassed if I worked with these so-called accessibility experts, their efforts sideline what accessibility is about. Cringeworthy and awful!!!

No comment on their site, but their employees helped me discover and resolve problems I never would have, for example a breaking problem in Windows 10 high contrast mode, or a problem with a specific version of Dragon NaturallySpeaking that was earlier than the one I had been testing on.

I find it really depends on where you live or who you're working for. Here in Canada (Ontario specifically), it's a pretty big deal given that some organizations have to hit accessibility requirements on their sites if they have certain characteristics (number of employees etc.).

It's led to a good percentage of the work done here (both in traditional CMS implementations to custom applications) require accessibility not as an after thought, but baked in by default.

Makes it better for everyone, but without a good handle on what it actually means, and ensuring that whatever toolsets you're using (CMS, JS/CSS/backend framework, library etc.) also provide the necessary tooling as well, it can make projects run over time/budget.

Factor that in first, learn the tech/tools, and it doesn't have to be that dramatic. I'm assuming that common accessibility on the web/mobile will be expected nearly everywhere "soon".

Can you recommend any resources to help me learn best practices in this area?

* Target low hanging fruit using browser extensions and CI tools like:

http://khan.github.io/tota11y/

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/axe/lhdoppojpmngad...

https://github.com/dequelabs/axe-webdriverjs

* Try using your site, app, document, whatever with a screen reader like NVDA or VoiceOver

https://webaim.org/articles/nvda/

* Check out Google's A11ycasts (also features NVDA):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtTyRajRuyY&index=30&list=PL...

* If you don't have a lot of time:

https://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Quick-and-Dirty+...

* If you have more time:

https://wiki.fluidproject.org/display/fluid/Making+an+Inclus...

Thank you very much!

Bundle it with localization/I18N -- most people understand the need for that. Also mention "screen readers" -- something tangible.

As the saying goes, your most important website visitor — the google search bot — is blind.

Make them actually blind to it! Change the color palette to mimic various color blindnesses. wire up a spastic mouse, make them use an "approximate keyboard" with no markings.

> seem blind to it

I couldn't help to notice the involuntary pun. What you say is sadly true, and it is a sort of cognitive blindness.

> but clients (and many employers) seem blind to it.

I see what you did there

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