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Comment by qaq | Hacker News Reader

"immigrant-friendly" thats very far from being accurate.

edit: strong lang.

Well, I guess it depends on each person's experience. but according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d..., US has the most immigrants at 46 million, next closest is Germany at 12 million and Russia at 11 million.

1) legal? 2) Historical laws vs current laws 3) Adjust for population size Even for say Software Eng. moving to US is a very f@#$up process, but pretty much any other country is trivial often with immediately being permanent resident or some visa that converts to PR in 1-2 years.

Its easier to get into the us than the eu so thats simply wrong. The us have way more ways too.

You've got be kidding the only realistic option for US is H1B majority of EU countries have simple visa's for Software Eng. with no quotas. My former employees from Ukraine are in Germany, Austria, Norway, Ireland, Estonia, Poland, Czech Republic (and outside of EU Australia, Canada) the process was 2-3 month on avg. for EU countries and they become residents pretty quickly with no quotas.

theres no quota on an O visa and you have L visas and a bunch of others on top of H1B plus the lottery plus 11 million illegal immigrants living and often working here even paying taxes. I can assure you IAm not kidding and that you should learn a little about just how open the US is compared to the EU.

How having 11 million illegal immigrants is being open :)? In Ireland it would take 2 month to get work visa that becomes PR after 2 years. L1 is only for transfers anyone that can qualify for US O visa are welcome anywhere in the world.

How many illegal immigrants are working in the EU. You don't just get a work visa. Believe me I have dealt with it as the owner of a company in Denmark hiring people from outside the EU.

In EU fewer because they actually let people settle. There was about 1 mil iligal workers from Ukraine alone but now poland is handing out visas even to unskilled workers so people mostly enter EU legally

You mean by keeping them in Turkey or turning them away in the waters so they drown?

I think you got the wrong information here.

You gonna pretend US border patrol is welcoming mexicans in US? That whole 0 tolerance thing is escaping your attention?

If they are legal yes and thats the discussion here. I repeat, its easier to get into the us legally than the eu. You want to count how many drowned to get into the eu? The EU isnt any better and 11 million people living illegally in the us on top of how many of them are immigrants the last 80 yearsshould be an indication of just how absurd the claims about the us immigration politics are.

Have you tried to do either? I’d love to hear what you’re basing this claim on.

ive got into the us on an O1 and now have a EB1 green card. i also founded a fairly big agency in Denmark hiring people from around the world so yeah I would say i have experience :)

OK lets compare the process for Ireland, Poland, Germany to US. Especially time to PR.

You can get a J1 visa in 2 weeks which gives you 18months.

You can get an EB1 (greencard in 3 months if you qualify.

You can get an O/L/E visa in a few months same thing with H1b.

And you have way more ways to get in.

I think you are ignoring the time to PR part. EB1 current processing time is 8 month (and you have to have 1 mil) the requirements are very strict You can buy a 500K property in Cyprus/Portugal etc and become resident (latvia 250K)without any requirement to run a business or hire people etc. Cmon H1B is done once a year and there is lottery with 50% chance of wining (spouse can not work) E visa are business visas and only for people from treaty trader countries plus they do not convert to PR L visas you have to work for the subsidiary for 1 year there is a limit on L visa length In Czcech Republic, Estonia etc. you need 10K to get residency through business and there are no requirements to hire people etc.

I am not ignoring anything. I have tried both hiring into the EU and from EU to the US.

Also you need to make the proper comparison with EU not just cherry pick a few countries. I can cherry pick countries to where it's very hard (try Denmark for instance).

My claim was EU vs US again 11 million illegal immigrants living here and for a large part contributing to the economy that alone would never happen in the EU.

And you don't need 1Million for a EB1. It's a merrit based greencard (just like O1 visa is)

A resident of any Shengen country can work and live in any other Shengen country that's why I cherry picked. Sorry confused EB1 with EB5.

Thats not the argument i made though. Thats like saying a resident of any state in the us. We are talking about coming from outside the EU.

Exactly coming from outside of EU you can become a resident of EU state that has simplest procedure and yet after that you are able to work and live in any EU state which makes immigration to EU trivial compared to US.

Again it's harder to get into the EU than the US. I have dealt with both for several years now.

You can also work in any state the second you are in the US.

I think it depends on a lot of factors. i.e. how much money you have, education background, prior experience and very significantly the country you're coming from.

Not to discount your experience, i am sure you've been through a lot of paperwork (i know i sure have, and i'm yet to meet someone who enjoys immigration departments!) but the US is pretty damn tough if you are not a) wealthy and/or b) highly educated and in demand.

>"but pretty much any other country is trivial often with immediately being permanent resident or some visa that converts to PR in 1-2 years."

Not at all. I know a couple that tried to move to Canada after Trump got elected but were shocked to find out they'd have to deposit 250k USD with the Canadian government for 5 years in order to be considered for permanantly residency.

Not only that, the demand for people to move into the US is tremendous so the competition is obviously very steep compared to less desireable places.

If they get enough points (which is trivial) you get PR even without job offer.

edited: strong lang.

Would you please edit the uncivil snips like "BS" and "You've got to be kidding" out of your comments here? We're trying for a bit better than internet median, and taking little shots like that lowers the discussion quality and encourages worse.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Done sorry for anyone that had a pleasure of going through US immigration system the notion that it is "friendly" will steer up a lot of strong feelings.

But it is difficult because demand is so tremendous and there are reasonable quotas. Not because it's difficult for difficulties sake.

Here's what is happening large companies tired of dealing with this system have setup offices in Ireland, Canada etc. When they want to hire people from outside US they move them to Ireland, Canada etc. and than will either keep them there or move them to US on H1B (if they win the lot.) or GC (takes 2 years+). So outside of loosing 2 years of tax revenue (or all future years of tax revenue based on them staying in satelite office I am honestly confused of what is exactly the benefit to US.

If they are from US and for some very strange reason can not get enough points to pass the simplest route is 1 person from the couple goes to college in Canada (even the cheapest one) the second person can get work permit based on being spouse of a student (student can work half time too) With 1 year of work experience and a Canadian degree they will have enough points for PR.

Giving up years of your life for school isn't trivial by any means.

We are comparing US and Canada. If person already has a degree a similar degree can be chosen that will require 1+/- year of study at a cost below 10K. The spouse can work during this year and the student can work halftime. This will be enough to get PR. In US the spouse will not have right to work the student can work on campus the minimal cost will be in 30K range, after getting the degree the former student (if the degree is appropriate) can work for 1-2 years in US if employer applies for H1B and the lucky former student wins the lot. he will be able to continue working and US employer can apply for GC (subject to far more req than in Canada) minimum time to GC in US in this scenario will be 4-5 years (realistically 6-7 provided the student was not from China or India) and in Canada about 2.

The link shows percentage numbers as well- relative to total world foreigner population as well as relative to each country’s population.

and point (1) ?

The USA is the size of a continent, so perhaps a fair(er) comparison would be to add all the immigrants in Europe. That's ignoring the fact that most people don't migrate to the USA because it's immigrant friendly but because of other factors such as proximity, language, and economy, and ease of access. Living in the USA as an undocumented immigrant is not that great. The balance is also tipping at the moment (e.g. more people are leaving the USA than entering the USA, currently).

If you look at the figures for net migration per 1000 inhabitants[1], the USA and Germany are pretty much the same for the period between 2007 and 2012: 15.94 per 1K and 15.54 per 1K respectively. For 2017, the USA sits at 3.9 (Canada 5.70).

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migra...

It's pretty accurate if you consider immigration overall, and for one simple reason: US has the most extensive family immigration eligibility, at least among developed countries. In Canada, for example, you can't sponsor your grandparents for permanent residence; but in US, you can. This is also why US is the only developed country dominated by family rather than skilled immigration, by the way.

Sure you can and if grandma is in good health she might survive 10-15 years wait time for this category. "In Canada, for example, you can't sponsor your grandparents" https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se...

I stand corrected wrt this particular category and Canada. It's not the case for most other countries, though. And it is still the case that more family members are eligible in US than most other places. That US has a lot more family immigration compared to others is also an objective fact.

In UK you can and also in most(all?) EU countries and without 10-15 years wait time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migra...

Sort by Net Migration Per 1,000 Inhabitants Australia 45.01 Canada 33.84 US 15.94

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