How ranchers in the West survive on their winnings from rodeo riding | Hacker News Reader

How ranchers in the West survive on their winnings from rodeo riding

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47 pointsflannery38 comments

Italy has a pretty cool program program for helping small scale farmers / ranchers make additional income through tourism by providing support (and money I believe) to help farmers start "agriturismos". It preserves something of the local / historical character of the farms and encourages participation in the tourism by locals rather than real estate companies building hotels.

I've stayed in a few and they've been amazing, many provide breakfast or communal dinners with produce from the farm, the settings are beautiful, and you get to know some of the local community

I'm not sure how farmers view this program, for all I know they could hate it (I hope not), but from the people I've spoken to it seems like a good program for everyone

Anthony Bourdain did an episode at one of those agriturismoes. Looks pretty cool. I didn't realize some of their ops were subsidized by the govt, but it makes sense.

This is basically how most tourism works in Cuba, with the Casa particulars. I stayed out on a farm for a week in Vinales, and I cannot recommend it enough! Amazing experience, and helps the locals a lot: for $20CUC a night, they're making nearly half what the government gives them a month (depending).

An interesting point is that the Cuban government uses an extremely regressive taxation system to extract maximum revenue from the people providing services to tourists. According to the people I spoke to, the first bracket is taxed at 100%, and revenue above this is not taxed (at all, I believe). However, the bracket limit is set quite high, so that a lot of work is required to clear the hurdle. But the motivation to reach that goal is high, so people work hard, and the government collects the fruits of this labor.

I believe Mancur Olson described a similar, extremely regressive taxation system at work in the Soviet Union. I cannot find any reference to this unfortunately.

I did the same. Loved it too!

p.s. It's "Casa particulares"

I typed that, autocorrect!

I spent time on one of these farms not far south of Rome, it was a truly wonderful experience. I didn't know it was so common - do you know if there is any easy way to find them? I came across mine by a referral, quite by (fortunate) chance.

I've used this site [1] and then cross check places that look interesting on Yelp / trip advisor

[1] https://www.agriturismo.it/en/

>Can Smith Mesa survive another generation in the Wrights’ name? And if so, how? The land is perfect for a postcard, but as Bill explains, “Beauty don’t pay the bills.”

Isn't the whole point that beauty does pay the bills now, as tourism has eclipsed ranching as the most economically productive use of land in that area?

Maybe for .01% of ranchers. I grew up on a ranch in Utah. Ranchers that make money from tourism or the rodeo are few and far between compared to the total number of ranches in Utah.

If that's the case then what is driving the rapid rise in land prices?

Preppers maybe?

Source on rapid rise in land prices? This [1] is from the USDA showing land prices at least from 2011 to 2015. Utah land runs an average of $2050 an acre and seems to be rising more slowly than most other areas, up from $1800 over those 5 years.

[1] - http://www.usda.gov/nass/PUBS/TODAYRPT/land0815.pdf

From the article:

>But in the 21st century, as climate change triggers periods of drought, land values continue to skyrocket, and the attraction of Zion expands along with its hotels, restaurants and bike shops, the family operation finds itself “squatted at the intersection of the old and new Wests.”

Hahaha, this reminds me of that Thomas Jefferson quote, "The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors."

I think the thing we can only be 'thankful' for is that that quote was from 1807. Our 'modern' issues are hardly modern!

Sustained historically low interest rates?

Occasionally I look at land in Utah from abroad and there are never any bargains!

So what happens to the ranches when they can no longer pay the bills?

They get sold

Sold to hobbyists? One benefit is that the land could rejuvenate after years of bovine hooves, I suspect.

Most of those ranchers don't have the vision to transform their ranches as they'd have to. Perhaps not the inclination, either. My aunt's family were ranchers out in NW Colorado and Eastern Utah and the entire extended family has transitioned into city life at this point.

Utah is one of the most beautiful parts of the world though, imo.

What's the ideal vision they should follow?

I just mean they're ranchers. They have a certain mindset and expectations and understanding of the world. They probably were born into it and have only ever known ranching.

It's a heck of a thing to (seemingly) cast your family's legacy aside to serve 'tourists' especially when it's the only life you've ever known and you're venturing out into uncharted territory.

My mother stayed in a lovely homestay in a mansion/chateau (closest analog?) in the Kolkata region recently and the owner/proprietor joked to her one time as he mopped the floor that his grand-father was a Raja and here he was mopping floors.

Not everyone wants to take up mopping floors...

Something that wouldn't help is that the slide would be gradual. Kids would leave one by one. Prices or yield would fall slowly. So while ranching is still there, the focus is on dealing with it or recovering rather than trying to create a slow-start new venture that could complement or supplant it.

Create a unique drawcard that stands out and sells in an age of image-driven social media. If the area is not particularly attractive, find a way to make it more so.

Cadillac Ranch is old, scrap cars embedded in nondescript dirt. I've visited there from the other side of the planet.

Salvation Mountain is a low, plain hill adorned with plaster and paint. I've visited there from the other side of the planet.

There's a wall in San Luis Obispo that is literally covered with chewing gum. It's disgusting but awesome, and I've been there. Elmer's Bottle Tree Ranch is basically junk arranged in an interesting way. Visited that too. I went to a restaurant because it has a novelty sign talking about "Ho' Made Pies". I've got loads of examples.

If given 5-10 properties remotely near a driving route or international drawcard (like Zion), I'm confident I could invent a unique thing for each that would attract tourists and not be overly expensive to create. I suspect land-owners don't have the imagination or inclination though.

Email in profile if you have a property and want motivation.

There is some truth to this, but a lot of times it's just not possible. Some spreads are so ugly, so rural, or so small (relatively speaking) that they really don't have that option. Some don't have the vision or the inclination as you mentioned. And some have both the option and vision, though this group is the minority.

There is a medium sized dairy farm I know of (1,200 dairy cows) that started making compost out of their manure and selling it. I know some of the nicer/larger spreads that do dude-ranching or guided hunts etc.. I just don't see most ranches as even having the opportunity to transform even if they wanted to.

I'll bet inclination has more to do with it than vision!

I kinda doubt tourism in Smith Mesa comes anywhere even close to ranching economically. Its an out of the way drive that not many people do. It’s a view of Zion, but that’s all. Everyone just goes to the park to go hiking and see the waterfalls and cliff views.

And there really isn’t that much either/or here. Ranchable land and tourist spots might be near each other, but there aren’t really many flat acres good for farming in Utah that also attract visitors. People hike the mountains and run the rivers, but the tourist demand for most of the flat land is pretty low.

It's possible that someone with picturesque land near Zion unable to monetise it just isn't very imaginative. Springdale is expensive and I feel like people would stay further out (say, if accessing the Kolob Canyons side of Zion) if presented with an interesting experience and decent price.

I'm from Australia but have visited Utah a number of times and shuttled up near Smith Mesa to start a Trans-Zion hike. I begrudgingly pay Springdale prices when in the area.

Last month in Australia, I hiked in an event on a sheep station where there were shearer's quarters rented to families in non-shearing seasons, and around 10 campsites set up. Each campsite had very basic facilities but enough to beat simple camping. I intend to return. The views up there are nowhere near what you get near Zion.

Sure but Springdale’s a purely tourist town, since it’s practically in the park. And there’s no ranchable land right in Springdale. It’s cute and there’s more options there for tourists, but you can usually find cheaper quarters only minutes away in the other towns. FWIW, when my family stays near Zion to shuttle & hike, we usually rent a house out by Hurricane.

But Hurricane is pretty unremarkable. I'm suggesting that an imaginative rancher could create something interesting enough that people stay there despite fewer services and despite being further from the park entrance.

I'm not talking about a farmstay but the sort of thing that people will travel from abroad to stay in because it looks incredible on their Instagram feed. There's nothing comparable in the area. And it need not be expensive to create like a desert resort.

There's a kinda-yurtish tent in the countryside near me that's styled up for photos and it rents for $140/night. It's much more basic than the yurts you see renting in the States. But still, $140/n and they have 60+ reviews already.

Loads of people will pay a premium on a motel or pick an alternative to a nice but plain hotel because it creates a better memory or looks more amazing. I'd be going after that market.

From the article:

> rodeo is rarely given serious literary treatment.

"Wild Horse Rider" is an interesting tale of a rodeo rider from 100 years ago, about a real person, from the Wallowa area of eastern Oregon https://amzn.to/2I3RtGu

It's not a work of 'great literature', but I enjoyed it. The guy had an interesting life for sure.

The OP is a take-off on the book: The Last Cowboys: A Pioneer Family in the New West, which profiles the Wrights of southern Utah, who have ranched near Zion National Park for 150 years, “long before there were any roads to get there,”

Absent from the reasons given for ranch decline is that "Per capita U.S. beef consumption peaked in the 1970s and has since declined by about one-third, according to USDA data on food availability." (http://www.wri.org/blog/2018/01/2018-will-see-high-meat-cons...) Though this does seem to be trending up again lately.

Based on my experience per capita U.S. beef consumption isn't a primary factor when it comes to ranch decline. During that same time period beef consumption growth in Asia (per capita) offset the difference and then some. Over the past 20 years beef prices ($/kg) have increased almost 300% from ~$1.60 to ~$4.50.

I live in Saigon now. It is amazing to me how many restaurants here claim to serve USDA beef.

I say 'claim to' because so much is fake here and there is no way to verify it.

In Japan when you see a place advertising USDA you definitely are getting it and people go in excited and expecting it. Not because it will be good but because you'll be getting a lot of beef for a lot cheaper than domestic, which goes for double the price atleast, but the domestic is also noticeably better.

GDPR;DR

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