For example, in Oklahoma City last year, police shot and killed a deaf man, despite being told he was deaf, because he wasn't able to hear what they were yelling to him:
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/09/21/552527929...
He was advancing toward them with a metal pipe, while their weapons were drawn. I don't think there was much that needed to be communicated in such a scenario. Most likely suicide by cop.
Probably the guy had no intention of using it as a weapon, but cops do deal with people prepared to attack them, and had only subtle clues that this case might be different. Given that they already had guns drawn, a clear signal, the deafness is almost irrelevant. Either the guy was coming after them, or just not tracking the situation. Only in hindsight is it clear that it was the latter.
Riot gear? Use those man catchers the japanese have? Retreat if he doesn't pose an immediate threat to anyone else? Pepperspray?
Other countries manage to detain physically violent people without shooting them. Unless the US is governed by different physics that make steel pipes more lethal I think there's no solid argument why police officers can't just handle the situation the same as everyone else.
Even a warning shot in the air is enough to calm certain situations. Or is there risk of shooting a plane, helicopter, falling bullet killing someone else?
I've been on raids with British police where the suspect has a violent criminal history. They just put on helmets and had shields ready in the van. No guns, no tasers, just batons and pepper spray. On one occasion the suspect had previously gotten arrested for brandishing nunchucks in public, and in the pre-raid briefing the sergeant said "if he comes at you with them, just retreat and wait for him to either knock himself out or tire himself out, then hit him a bit". He was only semi-joking.
It absolutely comes down to better training. Even failing that, I see no reason why a taser could not have been used in this situation. And ultimately if a police officer gets injured, tough shit: it's what they get paid for and they're well aware of the risks when they sign up. Maybe ditching the "shoot anyone who poses a marginal threat" mentality would be good for the police too, I reckon there'd be a lot less power hungry cops in the states.
At some point I believe a human being momentarily forfeits their right to life when they show reckless, deliberate disdain for the life of others. Deadly force was met with deadly force. The power imbalance is irrelevant, considering how much damage a man can do with a pipe, and the fact that he was fully aware of the situation.
All of it. I will trade a hundred dead police officers for one citizen who would have been unjustly harmed and sleep soundly for it.
Police receive power from the state and significant social plaudits. In exchange, they place the well-being of every citizen over their own. That's the deal. It is being abrogated regularly. That needs to change.
And where are you going to find people self-sacrificing enough to take that job?
Sadly, this hasn't been the deal in my lifetime and, to hear my parents--both of whom were police officers--tell it, for longer than that.
Every person I've ever interacted with who is or has been a police officer has said that the message is that your first duty is to "go home to your family." The "bad guys" aren't worthy of self-sacrifice and heroics. Now if you, as an officer, happen to die because you selflessly saved "a civilian" (notice how that's different from "a bad guy"), then you are seen as deserving of all of the heroic writings ever to be written about a human.
But if you die as a result of a supposedly-preventable outcome of a confrontation with "a bad guy", meaning that you didn't fire soon enough or you tried non-lethal methods in a situation such as described here, then you're just an idiot. So you've not so much sacrificed as a hero but simply failed.
I genuinely don't think that any police officer, or at least any significant number of them, sees themselves as having placed the well-being of every citizen-including-"perps" over their own. I kind of get it; when it comes to me versus the other guy, of course I want to be the one still alive at the end. I guess that means there's something fundamentally broken with how we parcel out state-backed forced.
I agree with this depiction of the current state of affairs.
I am saying that it is bonkers and wrong, because it is bonkers and wrong.
You can't have a free society that fears its police.
Warning, this is terrible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBUUx0jUKxc&has_verified=1
"The question that is frequently asked is Under what circumstances does the state or municipal entities have a constitutional duty to protect citizens from violence at the hands of private actors?
The general answer to this question is that there is no constitutional duty to protect free citizens. The only clear case of a duty to protect is when a citizen is in the custody of a state or municipality."
Since comments are public I don't necessarily address the parent poster with them, I also speak to the broader reader/commenter base.
I should have made myself clear on that, sorry.
As for how much risk a blunt weapon poses, a pipe can easily cave in a person's skull with a single blow. Successfully blocking the strike could result in a compound fracture of the forearm ... and then a caved-in skull. Broken ribs can cause punctured lungs and death from a pneumothorax. And it can all happen in a fraction of a second.
Real life violence is not a dance, like those long drawn-out fight scenes in movies. It's not about throwing punches and inflicting pain until somebody gives up. It's about breaking bodies so thoroughly that it's irrelevant whether the other person wants to give up or not. It's sudden, fast, confusing, brutal, and often horrific. The survivors of real world violence often come away knowing the smell of brains or freshly spilled bowels.
Before second guessing the police, it's important to know just what they really face. Read some books on real life violence. It's sobering. Rory Miller is a good place to start.
So, it's not ok to intentionally kill the suspect, but it can be ok to use deadly force. I'll assume you're really asking why deadly force might be acceptable. A pipe in the hand is a lethal weapon. If a police officer is duty-bound to apprehend a person who is using lethal force against him, it would be insane to use anything less than lethal force in response. If an officer attempts to use less effective non-lethal means, but fails and is killed, then he is not only dead, but also has failed in his duty to protect the public just as if he had run away.
It's important to remember that these situations can happen extremely fast, under enormous stress. A routine encounter can turn deadly serious in a fraction of a second. The whole thing can be over in under three seconds. There is no time to think or reason. To think is to hesitate, and to hesitate is to die. You must have a trained reflex: if they use deadly force, then I shoot at center-of-mass. Seeing a pipe in the hand of an approaching person might be the trigger for that reflex. It's not quite so simple, though. It's best to prime the reflex by thinking it through before-hand. Police officers must constantly maintain situational awareness, thinking through possible scenarios and priming their reflexes based on who is around and how they're acting. It's a very difficult and dangerous job.
while i'm no fan of the police, or their excessive use of force, one shouldn't be dismissive of "blunt melee weapons". they've been killing people on a daily basis for the duration of recorded history, and will likely continue to do so as long as we're all made of meat.
a) are never alone, always a pair of them on patrol
b) are supposed to be trained in combat to reasonable skill level
c ) carry their own meele weapons (batons)
d) (often) carry a taser
That should give them enough advantage over a man with metal pipe to subdue him without using guns. And if that's not enough, then maybe we should give them additional equipment (pads, helmets, shields, etc.) so they don't have to resort to guns.