Ask HN: Bipolar is affecting my performance badly. Should I tell my employer?

I used to be bi-polar, I now manage it with strict regiment of exercise, diet, and sleep.

After an extended manic episode I started getting paranoid and was underperforming at work. I ended up seeking help and was diagnosed. I told HR and my boss and was put on a performance improvement plan shortly afterwards. It’s just a round about way of slowly getting fired which is way more stressful. I worked for one of the major internet companies.

My advice would be not to tell anyone at work, let them fire you if you have to, it’s not the end of the world. Then make the lifestyle changes needed to manage your condition and build your new life around that. Unfortunately there is a stigma that will be impossible to get rid of and people will talk. This will impact future employment prospects worse than underperforming for a short period. The odds are you’ll be in the industry for a while and you’ll be better off eating a temporary setback than a more permanent one.

If you need an excuse to take time off it’s way better to blame burnout. I’d recommend taking a week of vacation citing burnout. Get some sun, go surfing. If they say no, I’d go anyway, and see if they change their mind by the time your back.

BTW HR is there to protect the company from lawsuits, not to help you in anyway.

But seriously; do what ever you have to to make lifestyle changes.

EDIT: I’m also a foreigner so I lost my work visa when I was let go. This was in 2009 and it was my first job. Few places were hiring in 2009 and I had diminishing savings. I stayed in the US as a tourist and did a visa run to Canada a couple of times. The third time they said I couldn’t do that anymore and only gave me a few weeks to pack my things and go back to my country. In my final week I got a job at different major internet company so I hung out in Canada until a new work visa came through. Looking back it was probably a good thing. It’s hard to leave a bad situation especially when your judgement is being clouded.

Thank you. I like how you started it "I used to be bi-polar". After being diagnosed with bipolar I turned to zen buddhism, and after a year of being diagnosed I learned to let the "label" go. Still, can't deny I suffer (like now) or have highs, but not where near as before.

I agree, I won't say anything unless critical, this is was not only for me but to show how difficult is to manage this personally, for the company and we as tech industry, since burnouts are frequent and depends on a lot of factors. Each person reacting different.

I have made many of your lifestyle changes. Definitely rebooting my brain with buddhism and stoicism is still key to control my self. Playing piano is another.

But right now the thing I need the most is to turn off the computer and iPhone for 1 week and get lost in nature.

That sounds like a good idea. Lifting weight was my zen time.

First time I hear that professionally diagnosed bipolarism can be cured with "zen time". Your similar suggestion to "go surfing for a week" is not in any way serious to people with this debilitating mental illness.

Don't mistake signs of burn out with bipolarism

Like many mental illnesses, the severity of the illness varies considerably. A single manic episode is the diagnostic requirement.

Zen means sit not lift

> I used to be bi-polar

I congratulate you on your success on managing your disease, but just to be clear, bi-polar disorder currently has no cure. If you are diagnosed with this disease, you have it for life until hopefully one day there is a cure.

I think you realize this based on the content of your post, but I wanted to make sure anyone reading it was clear.

The reason I want to be clear about this point is because many newly diagnosed sufferers believe once they stabilize they are cured, and stop taking meds. Then they relapse. It's a tale as old as time... or at least meds.

>If you are diagnosed with this disease, you have it for life until hopefully one day there is a cure.

Technically you can be cured of the disorder if it is well-managed.

Being neuroatypical is only a disorder if it causes distress or malfunction. If your life is good, you don't have a disorder.

Yes you are correct though that there is no cure for being neuroatypical though.

I’m sure that if I went back to my old habits it would not be long until I experienced massive mood swings, so I don’t consider myself cured in that way. I don’t take any medication for it, but I’m also on a strict diet that would likely be intolerable to most.

Perhaps a better analog would be to say, like, I used to be an addict, and I’m now in remission...

I'm sorry to hear that you're suffering.

If you have a reasonable manager, then yes, I would disclose to them and ask for time off to cope and seek treatment. Your manager can tell your team that you had an emergency health issue to deal with. Which is true! In American work culture, health issues are generally understood to be private, so people are unlikely to pester you about it.

If you don't trust your manager to keep your diagnosis private, then you can try telling them that you have a pressing health issue that you don't feel comfortable discussing in detail. That might be enough for them to give you time off. Or you can just say that it's sudden-onset burnout.

Depending on your company, looping in HR might help. If it's a big organization or has been around for a while, they've likely dealt with similar circumstances before.

Best of luck, and I hope you feel better soon.

This is a great answer. I'd add that I think you should keep your diagnosis private and disclose it to people you trust once you're recovered and back on your feet. Priority now is for you to have the time you need to heal, vs. explaining what you are dealing with.

And good luck, I hope you the best. Take care.

> If you have a reasonable manager

I think your scenario makes sense and is the optimal way this situation could go. I would add a little caution here just to point out that people you think you trust can suddenly take a turn when issues of mental health are thrown into the mix. There is a lot of historical and societal baggage and probably some biological imperative against the mentally ill. Blaming the mentally ill on recent mass shootings doesn't help that. Perfectly reasonable people can suddenly turn distrustful when you tell them about your diagnosis. They can then ostracize you and tell everyone else. This scenario is not at all uncommon, and is one of the few ways you can go from an insider to a pariah overnight.

IMHO and from experiance, HR are probably the last people you want to involve. They are your enemy and will do their best to fail you, sooner or later, if they can.

I’ve worked at Microsoft for 5 years and saw it time and again. When they were finally taken to court, they simply moved the head of HR to the USA. Sort of like the Catholic Church and child abuse, if you need an analogy.

There’s no “work ethics” in the USA. It’s a myth capitalism invented in order to exploit employees and get away with it.

It might not be a solution to your problem right now, but maybe working in a country that abuses its workforce to a point that they are too afraid to admit they’re sick, is not that healthy for you.

Thank you for taking your time.

I can't tell you what you should do, because that depends on so many details that only you are aware of.

I will tell you what I would like to hear from one of my employees if they were in a situation similar to yours.

I would like the employee to let me know they have something important to talk about. If remote, I would prefer this conversation to happen either by video teleconference, or by phone. I would not want this conversation via Slack, email, or other written medium, as text is not expressive enough.

I would like to hear it explained more or less the way you explained it here. In your post, you describe the condition, how it affects you personally and professionally, the dilemma you find yourself in, and you express concern about the company. Any normal manager would respond with compassion and tell you to take some time off and go see a specialist.

It is always difficult for a manager when someone on their team takes unexpected time off. This is especially so in crunch-time situations. However, it is literally their job to manage such situations, even in difficult circumstances.

Employees getting sick or requiring time off due to a medical situation is a normal situation, and there are various medical conditions that warrant time off and care. Whether it is a broken wrist, birth of a child, or a mental condition, they should be treated seriously and with compassion.

If you think you "only" need a week, I'd probably just say you have a pressing family emergency and need to take a week off, and that you are aware that this is a bad time to leave but it's really important.

A US company has many problems culturally but imo one thing generally we pride ourselves in is being supportive and understanding in times of family needs.

Also generally companies are built to withstand one person's absence for a week.

A US company has many problems culturally but imo one thing generally we pride ourselves in is being supportive and understanding in times of family needs.

What’s wrong with being supportive and understanding in a time of personal need?

Agree, but unstated is that it would be best not to have to actually do this. Often bipolar people overestimate how much others can see into their skulls. A polite but tired-looking “under the weather with allergies” look & feel with coworkers can paper over a month of crimes.

Ex-wife was bipolar but a fighter and I could not believe what she survived intact at tech companies.

Don't tell your employer anything. If you need to take time off, say it's for personal reasons or invent an excuse. The stigma is real. The minute you disclose your mental health difficulties, they will start running the calculus to decide if it's worth keeping you around, and unless you're a star performer who adds massive value to the business, they'll decide it isn't.

Remember that they don't give a shit about you. Their only goal in employing you is to make a profit by paying you less than they get by selling your work to their customers. They don't give a single fuck about your normal human struggles. Do not say a word.

1000x this. They do not care about anything other than to extract the maximum amount of profit from your labor.

You take care of you. They won't. Do what you've got to do, but tell them as little as you possibly can.

If the company is going bankrupt if you don't ship some software in a week that's an additional problem besides your bipolar condition. I'd be trying to find a new job.

Try to get as much paid vacation time as you can (a week or two probably) and then you could try to see if you can go on short or long term disability pay, if you have that insurance from your employer and you have worked there long enough.

The medical leave/disability will protect you from getting fired during that time and provide you with partial or full income for a long time, sometimes up to a year, and sometimes even if the company itself goes under.

During that time you can have plenty of time to focus on your mental health, getting out of burn out, and finding a better job. Taking a week off work may stem the issue but it likely won't fix the problem.

Don't tell anyone at work about any details about your condition. Don't even tell them it is something mental or physical. Provide only enough information that is legally required.

I once confided in my manager when I was going through a break-up and depression, and burn out. He was my friend in addition to my manager. After I got back from my "vacation" he transferred me off his team and washed his hands of me. Never even spoke to me again, and I see him around town sometimes and he never has even come up to ask how I'm doing.

Your health and wellbeing has to be your number 1 priority, above all else.

I would tell your employer that you're suffering from extreme burnout both personally and professionally as you've described, ideally with HR involved as @exolymph suggested.

Explain that it's effecting the quality of your work (they may have already noticed) and they should hopefully appreciate your honesty. They should recognise the commercial benefit of giving you a break so that you can come back much more productive.

If they don't support you during a difficult time and force you out then you will be better off with a different employer in the long run anyway.

Talk with friends and family. This will pass and you will get through it. Good luck.

> I would tell your employer that you're suffering from extreme burnout both personally and professionally as you've described, ideally with HR involved as @exolymph suggested.

This is IMHO naive and bad advice in the majority of cases.

Especially so when he's a remote contractor. And especially so when the company is not a reputable established company with deep pockets and corporate machinery like Google/Microsoft/etc.

Those companies have processes to deal and help with these cases (and even they don't really).

But at the average startup (have to ship or almost going bankrupt, go figure the rest) two bros will have a quick chat and you get a "sorry ... bye" email next week.

Just announce you would be taking a break in 2-3 weeks. Not only does this give them notice to be better prepared for your absence, this also helps mental issues (personal anecdote), since you can now feel relieved that very soon you'd be going on a vacation, which gives you some energy to get some work done before leaving for the vacation.

I don't think you need to tell your employer the details. Just say you need a vacation.

Also, a lot of us go through this. I hope you don't feel alone in this. Best of luck!

I've struggled with mental health issues at various points in my life, and for the most part I've been able to maintain a reasonable level of productivity when dealing with those issues, but there are times where it's just been too much and I need a break.

I don't normally talk about it with employers unless I am going through a particularly bad episode which is materially affecting my situation, which if I understand correctly is the case for you.

On the relatively rare occasions where this has happened, I've basically said that 1) I'm not handling this well at all, and - most importantly - 2) unless I'm able to take some time off or reduce my workload significantly, I'm going end up in hospital again and/or having to resign, and that having me keep working while ill is going to work out badly for both parties.

It's strange and unfortunate that mental health issues aren't always understood to the same extent as physical ones. I hesitate to give concrete advice on exactly what your best option is as I don't know enough about your relationship with your employer or how critical your involvement is to the company, but if they're understanding people you have a good rapport with I'd be inclined to go ahead and talk about it.

The most important thing above all else is your health. I cannot stress this highly enough; the alternatives aren't pretty. Even in the (probably very unlikely) event it costs you your job, you should put your wellbeing first - you can always find another job later.

> It's strange and unfortunate that mental health issues aren't always understood to the same extent as physical ones.

It's for this reason I often just lie and say it's a physical issue. People understand that an arm hemorrhaging blood needs to be fixed. They don't understand that a brain stuck on an infinite loop also needs to be fixed.

I'm also bipolar. And yes, the depressive phase is horrible.

I don't recommend disclosing your health status to your employer. Especially given what you've said about its current situation. Just ask for a couple weeks off to deal with family matters. Given what you say about their vacation policy, I don't see the point of resigning.

I was in therapy on and off for decades, before a smart psychiatrist put me on lamictal (mood stabilizer) and modafinil (mood elevator). I have no clue whether that would work for you. Some still swear by lithium. But definitely don't get on SSRI/SNRI. They could make you seriously crazy.

I tried those meds two years ago and it all went bad. Really bad. I turned Buddhist for this same reason.

I promised my self not to take any med ever again. Meditation and retreats help me badly.

Hopefully haven't been critical in years, way better than meds. I promised my self that if I ever need them, I would rather gave up everything, become a 100% spiritual and become a Monk than take Lamictal, Valproic acid, or Lithium again.

I suspect that monks can be depressed too.

You say that you tried lamictal. But that alone won't help at all if you're depressed. It may even make you feel worse. It's the modafinil that makes me happy. But not too much, or I start to go manic. Once you're happy and energetic enough, you add lamictal for stability.

I don't know what the law is like in the US, but in my country you do not have to share a diagnosis with your employer. Given the stigma around mental health, I'd really not disclose too many details prematurely, unless you are certain that your company will be supportive. All they need to know is that you are not fit to work. Whether the reason is bipolar disorder, migraine, or a broken leg really isn't any of your employers business.

It's hard to say. People react in very different ways. I've had very close relatives flip out at news like this, to the point of disowning me. Some people see bipolar people as a threat. I wish it weren't that way, and I wish there was no stigma. But there is, and it's very real. Just a word of caution.

I would say... how long have you been there. Maybe you can take a 6 month sabbatical. Either way, take care of your mental health first, even if you have to quit. If you quit now it's on your own terms. If you quit in the middle of a manic episode.... who knows how that will go down. If you try to get help you might be pushed out and marginalized. If you take a break and get your health together, you can bounce back and land on your feet at another job.

Human resources literally means that humans are resources.

I would like to believe that employers would really take care of their employees, but in 2018 this just isn't the case. A problem employee is a problem employee and often will just get shown the door. Once an employee is a problem, many managers claim they don't have time for him anymore.

Also "unlimited vacation" is not truly unlimited. It's kind of a tax game, where they don't have to pay you unused vacation if you leave.

If it were me going through your pain, I would resign and explain why. If they wanted to keep you on, or let you take three weeks of vacation, that's their decision.

But don't tell them hoping to get support, and then be surprised when you're out of a job.

Do NOT tell your employer specifics.

Tell them something generic like you are tired and need a good break to refresh.

Don't try to justify or explain details.

Ignore the fire, there will always be fires, the company needs to learn to cope with it.

You can be a bit more flexible, for example give them notice and set the date ahead of time and wait a bit to take some days off.

If they say something you can point out that you haven't taken much vacation in the past year despite the policy and all that and tell them that it's not sustainable and you don't burn yourself out or accept fake unlimited vacation policies.

In summary, just ask for a break, don't go into details trying to justify it, and take it without apologies.

> But just need a week break.

Can't you just see your doctor or psychologist, tell them you need a week and ask for a note. Just like you would if you had the flue or had to get wisdom teeth removed.

The reason why you are off sick is actually none of your employer's business. Unless you think it will become a problem in the long run.

But by all means put your own mental health before that of the company.

Dual-pronged approach: (1) get help on the side, (2) don’t say shit, don’t tell anyone, don’t take vacation, just grind it out the best you can and take pains to be really nice on a personal level and actively call in all technical favors you can cash in.

I hate that this is the best thing to do, but it is. Fight. Fight hard and grind.

We do a lot of stuff in the open. Coding, learning, blogging etc and that's all fun when things are going well. You can decide that line stops at your personal health. Keeping details to yourself is not lying or being nasty, it's a healthy personal boundary. Take care of #1 always. (edit grammar)

I would say it is medical, I personally avoid saying bipolar to people I don't know well because it has come with some adverse reactions over the years. I don't know your boss but I would expect to get fired for it, ask if you can take medical leave without specifying why.

Sorry about that, but if you are going to have an open position, email me the company so I can apply.

If you want time off, take time off.

Keep the reasons to yourself.

Take a break. Your health is worth it!