Hacker News Reader

To play devil's advocate here...

1) Are you incapable of finding the right size shoes yourself? The boxes are usually laid out fairly logically and it's pretty rare for there to actually be anything of use "in the back".

2) Hiring people to provide the level of service you're asking for would significantly increase the cost of labor over the minimum wage kids that usually staff these stores. I'm fairly certain the cost increase would guarantee the store goes out of business with the razor thin margins they usually have. Put another way, do you really think paying 50% more for higher quality employees would guarantee 50% more sales revenue?

A big reason online shopping wins is because no one has the expectation that an actual human will help them purchase things, and the labor and rent costs are tiny in comparison to retail.

A lot of these stores still operate on a model that requires a salesperson to fetch the product (i.e. the non-display shoes are kept in the back). That in combination with the ever dwindling margins in a brick and mortar retail store makes it difficult to hire adequate staff to meet these needs, that or you wind up paying people such a low wage that you don't attract folks who are very interested in customer service int he first place. This is a phenomenon that I have seen across lots of segments of retail, and I predict that in the next decade we will see a dramatic change in the way retail business is conducted.

> 1) Are you incapable of finding the right size shoes yourself? The boxes are usually laid out fairly logically and it's pretty rare for there to actually be anything of use "in the back".

Having large feet, its pretty common for shoes not to have something in my size in the front, but maybe 50% of the time there are shoes in my size in the back.

It's very rare that I shop for shoes in person any more, but the few times I've found myself in a shoe store in the past few years, I'll generally just ask a rep to bring me or point out everything they have in a size 14, which usually ends up being 2-3 pairs.

The best places will understand immediately - some will even know off-hand which ones they have in larger sizes. Most of the time, the rep will respond with an awkward laugh and ask if there's a particular shoe I'm interested in.

At that point, I'll pick literally any random men's shoe and ask them to bring it to me in a size 14. When they return, either they'll come back with a couple pairs of shoes in my size (not the one I asked for), which is great, or they'll come empty handed and I'll ask again, if they can bring me (or point out) everything they have in a size 14, which will generally end up being 2-3 pairs.

Wonder if their initial reticence might come partially from shitty software making it hard to find all available shoes of a given size across all styles?

I used to assume it was just due to a poorly organized back room, or possibly laziness. But it's seemed more that they're not understanding the question as asked.

How often does someone walk into their store and ask them to bring all of a single size to the front? Once they go to the back room to try to find boxes with the number 14 on them, they generally realize the issue.

I've tried going with the longer explanation, but the dance goes on regardless, and my version is the most abridged, thus far.

Instead I'll generally order a few pairs online and then send most back. It's inefficient and wasteful, but Zappos offers next day shipping free for members and an excellent return policy, which is hard to pass up.

Yeah I'd bet they also think "You know how many styles of shoes we have?!" when you first ask then realize how limited the options are once they actually go back.

I don't know what kind of stores you are used to but there is usually only one shoe on display. All the pairs are kept in the back of the store, you cannot try anything without help from the salesperson.

I'm not much of a shoe person, but I have literally never been to or heard of a place like this.

Including places like Modells, Macy's, Payless, Sports Authority, etc etc etc

Perhaps it's a cultural difference? Every shoe store I've been to in my whole life is like the parent poster mentioned: there's one pair of each model on display behind glass, and the salesperson goes to the back to get the boxes in your size.

Definitely a cultural difference, and I'm intrigued about this approach. I used to work the shoe department at K-Mart and spent most of my time cleaning up after people who tried shoes on and just left them in the middle of the aisle, or trashed the boxes getting them open (how???), or tossed their old shoes in the box and walked out wearing a brand new pair.

Maybe not as consumer-friendly as what I'm used to, but it sounds heavenly from the employee standpoint.

What are you talking about? If a store were to keep every size of each shoe for public display they would have space to show about four types of shoe. Every shoe store since the beginning of time keeps almost all stock in the back.

In most of Europe, at least in the part of it where I've lived, you have both types of stores. If the store has a separate back, you only 1-2 sizes of each model on display. If the store doesn't or it's too small, you have 1-2 sizes on display next to a more or less organized pile of shoe boxes.

I think the main reason for either is whether the store is built one way or another.

It depends on the store. Some only have display shoes, others have display shoes and sized pairs below them. Generally, the more upscale the store (or the more likely goods are to be stolen) the more likely it is that shoes will be kept in back.

Must be a location thing. I've never been to a store selling <$100 shoes (the kind the OP was shopping for) that didn't have all or most of its inventory on the shelves. For higher-end stores, yes the space is often devoted to display with inventory "in the back", but I was just at a mall Sketchers a few months ago and found my shoes myself with no problem. Same with my department store shoe sections.

Replying here--yeah, the stores inside shopping malls typically lack the real estate to have all the shoes available in the main store and, instead, keep them in a stock room in the back. I've definitely been to both types; but, the mall stores are almost always the "pick a display shoe and have a salesperson bring your size."

Most shoe stores i've been to are all show shoes out front and they grab your size from the back.

Just to provide a counter-point from someone with different tastes, I actually prefer to be left alone when I go to a shop. I'd rather ask for help than have someone hovering trying to be helpful.

In almost all cases, I completely agree with you!

In shops that require interaction to proceed beyond browsing (such as the shoe shops I visited yesterday) I want a salesperson to be attentive and help me so I can spend as little time as possible standing around waiting.

> Stores in a mall have a real opportunity to win on personal service and instant gratification. Hire someone to help me find shoes

You say that as if it's possible in the same way as advice such as 'find a good lawyer'

1) Assumes that if you are helpful customers won't suck up an extraordinary amount of time and that it will pay off in the end (might not)

2) Assumes paying for a better person will result in more sales (may not)

3) Assumes qualified people even want this job (there may be none)

I am not disputing in a perfect world you are right and that better help you will end up with more sales and higher profit. But generally it's not low hanging fruit or very easy. Typically stores that do this well are more specialty stores where the workforce loves the product and will accept lower pay and likes to get the same questions over and over again. (Like an REI store or a bike shop ..) Also the margin on the product matters. Remember rent in malls is very high.

> Remember rent in malls is very high.

Uhh ... Did you forget what article you're commenting on?

Go to DSW, all the shoes are out on the floor to try on. I won't go to Macy's (because they're overpriced) but I refuse to sit around while someone fetches me shoes from the back room.

Unfortunately, DSW generally maxes out at size 13. Otherwise, I agree, and really appreciate how DSW works.

Nordstrom Rack is a pretty great place to shop without asking for someone to "fetch" shoes for you as well, and they tend to have larger sizes and some decent shoes.

Yeah, we happened to be near the mall yesterday for an unrelated reason so I decided to give it a shot. DSW is always a good option; but, I often find myself frustrated with my size being fairly common (translation: often sold out).

Now try walking into an Apple store and buying a new Mac or iPhone in a reasonable amount of time. Good luck!

Unreal! A couple years ago I went into an Apple store prepared to buy an iMac. I'd done my research, knew which model, knocked it around a little in the store, had no reservations about making the purchase. At that point I walked and stood around the store like an idiot for about 20 minutes, asking if I could buy a computer. After being passed around like a cold, moldy potato between Apple employees dealing with other customers who had not yet reached buying decisions, I left, disgusted. Ended up going to Best Buy instead, saved a few bucks.