Hacker News Reader

Comment by Latteland | Hacker News Reader

Not putting enough ports on devices is a crucial problem. Apple with their stupid single port is just idiotic. The best port selection with usb-c is on the 2015 chrome pixel laptop. 2 usb-c, 2 usb-a. Just having a single usb-c has caused endless pain, all so apple could sell stupid dongles. The new google pixelbook 2018 is a great form factor, except they only have 2 usb-c, they dropped usb-a. The reason was probably to make it a little thinner. But like on a macbook pro laptop, having two usb-a's mean you can plug a mouse and keyboard into it. The new pixelbook needs an adapter for that.

edit: mixed up usb-a and -b. D'oh!

View on HN

"All so Apple could sell stupid dongles"

I hear this charge a fair amount, but it seems really unlikely that Apple moved to USB-C solely to "sell stupid dongles," for the fairly obvious reason that you don't need to buy your dongles from Apple. USB-C is indeed still a mess, but it's a non-proprietary mess. As far as I know, Apple's 100% USB-C laptops are the first machines Apple has shipped in their history that don't have a single proprietary connector on them; there's something distinctly ironic about how annoyed we all are over it. I don't think going in on all USB-C was a great idea, but I think it's less of a problem with laptops than it is with phones; I think it would certainly be possible to label USB-C ports in some fashion to indicate their capabilities; and I think a laptop with 2 USB-C ports on each side, like several of Apple's MacBook Pros have, is really not going to create hardships for most users.

(Although they should really have a micro-SD card slot on at least the 15" model. C'mon, Jony, get over yourself.)

"Stupid single port"

Well, again to be fair, there's only one laptop Apple sells with a single USB-C port on it, the 12" uber-thin MacBook. That machine is kind of a radical experiment in some ways, an attempt to build a laptop using the principles of the iPad. (That's not just a pet theory of mine; I've heard from more than one source in a position to know that there were internal prototypes of the single-port MacBook that used Apple's Lightning port.) I'm glad it exists, but I'm also glad I don't own one, and I'm not at all glad that Apple has infected the rest of its laptop line with that keyboard. (Again: get over yourself, Jony.)

> I hear this charge a fair amount, but it seems really unlikely that Apple moved to USB-C solely to "sell stupid dongles," for the fairly obvious reason that you don't need to buy your dongles from Apple.

This is classic techy naivety.

When Apple marketing looks at what percentage of their customers almost certainly going to buy dongles exclusively from them, what number do you think they come up with? If you're under 50% you are WAY off.

Tens of millions of dog-loyal Apple customers don't even suspect that using another company's dongle is even an option. And how insane is the markup on Apples dongles? Use your head, man.

My head in general tells me that people who make arguments that take it for granted that the majority of Apple customers are idiots are not arguing in particularly good faith.

Being unaware does not mean you're an idiot. People who don't care or give a shit about technology or available hardware offerings are not idiots. They just stick with what they think they can rely on. I assume you know that. Now who's arguing in bad faith?

This would be fine if there were good USB-C port expanders. They're all terrible, even the Apple one. If you just want power or video, you're fine. But nobody can build a working, stable USB 3.0 hub into one.

So while you can charge your 12" MacBook at the same time that you're plugged into a 4k or 2560x1440 monitor, you can't use any damn external drives. They either run at turtle speeds or they randomly unmount or don't work at all.

Don't get me started on the Apple one. I bought one early (for the MacBook 2015) and the earlier series have a USB 2.0 hub. They touted the USB-C connector and how it would carry USB 3.0 (now 3.1). And their adapters, which set me back 80 Euro each (needed both HDMI and VGA) were only USB 2.0. To add to the confusion, they apparently also started selling variants with a USB 3.0 hub, without any clear indication on the packaging.

I still feel incredibly sour about buying a 1400 Euro MacBook with two 80 Euro cables, resulting in poor USB 2.0 speeds. And at the time there wasn't really any choice in adapters. Oh, and it doesn't support HDMI 2.0. So when I got a MacBook Pro later and a 4k screen, the cable was worthless and I had to get an USB-C <-> DisplayPort cable.

I liked Apple computers and I would recommend them to family, friends, colleagues. But their USB-C debacle is one of the reasons (besides the keyboard) why I stopped recommending Apple. If they'd just added two USB-A ports... (I don't care about the few extra millimeters.)

No, it wouldn't be fine... There is definitely a need for better hubs out there but apple also needs to put an acceptable number of ports on their machines. The laptop being all sleek and awesome loses a bit of that niceness when you're tethered to a jumble of daisy-chained wires.

Also, usb-c is super small, just pop like 4 or so on and it won't even effect your design.

Apple with their stupid single port is just idiotic

This is on a single specific device.

The best port selection with usb-c is on the 2015 chrome pixel laptop. 2 usb-c, 2 usb-b

You mean USB-A.

Just having a single usb-c has caused endless pain, all so apple could sell stupid dongles.

Nobody I know using MacBooks has a particular problem with this. A dongle would be required in most cases to connect to an external display in any case; it's not like Apple are selling more dongles.

Nobody I know using MacBooks has a particular problem with this. A dongle would be required in most cases to connect to an external display in any case; it's not like Apple are selling more dongles.

Agreed.

My wife has a MacBook with a single USB-C port. Having only one port has exactly zero impact on her. The only thing she uses it for is for charging, and very occasionally plugging in a tiny hard drive to look at her iPhoto library which is larger than the computer's built-in SSD.

Everything else in her lifestyle is wireless. And that's where Apple has been going for a long time. She is Apple's target market for a single USB port device.

If you're the kind of person whose lifestyle or workflow necessitates more than one port, you buy a computer with more than one port. Doesn't seem like rocket surgery. I don't understand why OC is so upset.

As for Apple selling more dongles, I don't think that's what's behind it. Apple would probably rather have the shelf space for higher-margin in-house products than use the space for SKUs from another company. I doubt Apple is making bank on USB-C dongles.

Apple's USB-C dongle is the least functional, most overpriced dongle there is. It has to have a huge margin.

Apple's USB-C dongle...

Which dongle do you mean? Apple has about five different USB-C dongles, each for a specific purpose.

Do you mean the $19 USB-C to old USB dongle? How is it less functional than any other USB-C to old USB dongle? It seems to achieve its stated purpose. What functionality do other USB-C to old USB dongles have that it lacks?

I mean the first Google result when you lookup 'apple usb-c dongle' [1]. It's $70.

[1]: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-a...

If you're on HN, you should know that Google results are tailored to the person, not the search query.

The first Google result I got for the same query was the previously mentioned $19 dongle.

> If you're on HN, you should know that Google results are tailored to the person, not the search query.

Incognito FTW

But they're all overpriced, because they cost $.80 to make. That's the essence of the whole dongle thing, the margins on them are gigantic. It's why Apple's iPhone connectors were proprietary for so long, it's why they're moving away from analog headphone jacks, it's why the MacBook only has one USB-C port. I honestly don't know how this is controversial at all.

What does she do when she has low battery and needs to look at her iPhoto library?

Hasn't happened, to my knowledge. The MacBook has way more battery than she needs. (It's a home computer, not a work computer.)

And she's a human bring, not a squirrel on crack, or a nerd caught in a social media feedback loop, so she never "needs" to look at her iPhoto library right now. She can wait 30 minutes for a partial charge to see pictures of her family or cats or whatever.

Is the condescension really warranted for a simple question?

Any condescension is your perception only; not my intent.

I didn't read it as being directed at you; just a statement of fact, not everyone is glued to technology like the average demographic on HN, it's weird to hear that someone can be unable to use their laptop immediately and they're comfortable with that.

It's a statement of fact that the average demographic of HN are not human beings?

> Apple would probably rather have the shelf space for higher-margin in-house products than use the space for SKUs from another company.

Are you for real? The margins on their dongles are astronomical!

> A dongle would be required in most cases to connect to an external display in any case

Is it? You'd need to be using a display that provides neither DisplayPort nor HDMI. HDMI tends to be available on even somewhat older displays, and most modern ones I've dealt with definitely have both.

The equivalent Macs to the MacBook One would have had mini-DP. I don’t think they had HDMI. So you’d need an adapter.

Even then, you often don't need any adaptors — the Dell U2415 I use at home has both DP and miniDP ports, and packed a miniDP to DP cable — I could use that out of the box both with my macbook (by using a DP port) or my desktop computer (by using the miniDP port)

OTOH literally everyone I know with the new MBP has this problem. They used to be able to use the HDMI port, but now they need a smattering of adapters for HDMI and minidisplayport. They also have trouble with the adapter not working when hotswapping ethernet cables

I just have a Thunderbolt 3 hub and it connects everything I need to a single port. Its actually much more convenient than before.

which one do you have? as reported in this discussion, it's not that uncommon to have problems.

Not the GP, but I also have similar setup and I use CalDigit TS-3 at home and Kensington SD5200T at work - zero issues. I don't use 4K displays though, just 1080p.

Same here. Now with a single connection I get 2 external displays, USB peripherals, Gigabit Ethernet connection, external speakers AND it also provides 85W of power to charge my MBP...

USB-B? Do you mean USB-A?

https://www.differencebtw.com/difference-between-usb-type-a-...

yeah, sorry, fixed.

Not having USB-C on my laptop doesn't even matter. The Google Pixels 1/2/C and Nexus 6P have USB-C, but they don't transfer data at that speed.

I also don't want to fry my devices however and I'm scared of these poor quality miswired cables, so I am a steadfast advocate of buying my USB-C cables from Anker.

Pixel 2 does actually do usb 3 speeds if you have a usb 3 host and cable.

I stand corrected.

> all so apple could sell stupid dongles

Do people really think that Apple is making any significant money on dongle sales, and that it was a main reason they decided to go with single type c ports? Most people who own new MacBooks I know purchase non Apple branded dongles anyway. And even those that apple sells are not really bringing that much money to Apple imo

> Apple with their stupid single port is just idiotic.

Not really. The entry-grade MacBook is designed to be tiny and portable. One port that does everything fits with this philosophy (makes the laptop thinner and smaller and less complex - yes, it makes a surprisingly large difference).

Want more? The MacBook Pro is for you then with 4 ports - all of which, as they are usb-c, are more multi-functional than usb-a (not b, that's like you see on printers).

You may not be the target customer for a single port but it is a very intentional design choice and makes a lot of sense as most tech people use now supports wireless communication.

In fact you can see you're not the target market - you want to plug in a mouse and keyboard to a damn laptop. Basically you're docking your laptop. Ok, so get a hub. You are an edge case.

Products not making themselves worse for a tiny fringe of the market is a good thing.

Sure, I may be an edge case. But I come to work, I need to plug my laptop into power and my work monitor is a 4k tv, so I need to plug that in. Often I like to close the screen and just that monitor. They could at least put two of them on there.

And this is why socks & hubs exist. Sounds like you have a base station in all but name.

Also there is nothing stopping that 4K TV from supporting both video AND power over USB-C.

Theres literally nothing preventing them from adding another port on the other side. It was a design decision not a technical limitation - there's plenty of ultralights the same size for a lot less money that have two USB-C's. It's been the single biggest complaint about the product. Calling it an edge case is a massive understatement.

No, it’s literally an edge case. For the target market anyhow.

Also it’s not just “adding another port”. It’s adding all the circuitry, changing the internal routing, changing the logic board, adding at least one more IC... etc.

For what? An edge case.

My Macbook Pro has 4 USB-Cs and I have a dongle for ethernet (which is rare).

If I'm using my external monitor I bought a DisplayPort to Thunderbolt/USB-C cable.

If I'm out and about and need HDMI, I have another dongle (but that's no different to my previous Mac which needed a dongle for HDMI as well)

There are 2 usb-C ports on the X1 Carbon 6 as well

> Not putting enough ports on devices is a crucial problem.

With USB-C the reality is you have to pick two of: cheap, supports every USB-C standard, and has lots of USB-C ports.

> usb-c is on the 2015 chrome pixel laptop. 2 usb-c, 2 usb-b.

That'd be 2 USB-C and 2 USB-A and the 2018 ThinkPads have similar port selection. The 2017 X1 Carbon and Yoga already had.

The mind boggles at how the dongle mongerers hobbled these Mac models. From every new Mac, a tangle of dongles hang at odd angles. What a boondoggle.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com