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Comment by ar813 | Hacker News Reader

Following the Tolkien reference, migrants trying to cross the border are like Sauron’s army? Orcs? I’m not sure this world needs more ways of dehumanizing the desperate people and refugees seeking better lives.

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Anduril aka "flame of the west" is Aragorn's sword. He uses it to fight orcs, but also to fight "Southrons" and "Easterlings", men under the influence of Sauron. (Make of that what you will)

Notably, Aragorn is able to defeat the latter two groups using his sword at the Battle of Minas Tirith, thus repelling them from "The West". I suppose Luckey thinks of his system as a way to repel evil people like the Southrons?

This is more likely Thiel's idea (Luckey's backer on both Anduril and Oculus) than it is Luckey's.

Thiel's companies Palantir Technologies, Valar Ventures, Mithril Capital, Lembas LLC, Rivendell LLC, and Arda Capital are all named after Lord of the Rings.

Yes, you're right.

I was a huge fan of LotR as a kid. Then I started to notice Tolkien's attitudes about race, class, and sex seeping into it, and it lost a lot of its appeal. If Thiel's into it, that's the final nail in the coffin. This quote from John Rogers seems apropos.

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

Everyone is seeking better lives. That's not a justification to allow someone into your country.

EDIT: If you're downvoting this, does this mean that there should be no regulation for who can enter a country?

I am downvoting this because of the descendants of the illegal ANGLO immigrants who came to Texas in the early 19th century profit and cheer the criminalization of those doing the same thing.

That's an entirely different discussion. War is war. You act as if no humans ever battled for the territory before the 19th century.

Should Mexico let anyone in south of its border?

No it’s not. America was not at war with Mexico during 1812-1836. Tens of thousands of gringos came and illegally squatted on land as well as raped and killed numerous Tejano families for their land. You should brush up on your history.

It does. Show up at the border any time as an American citizen and they stamp your password and let you in.

Nah fam, those people were _pioneers_, get it? They braved the harsh conditions and took what was there after expelling the native savages. /s

Nah fam, those noble savages grew from the soil and never battled for territory, ever. /s

There's a distinction between "killing" and "being killed". Both should be avoided for different reasons.

Its almost as if that was a bad thing and we want to prevent that bad thing from happening again.

Of course there should immigration regulations, but because that's the comment you chose to make at this moment in this context, people are probably assuming that you believe the talking points about there being some big huge problem with illegal immigration in America, that somehow necessitates things like building a giant border wall and enabling ICE, etc. That would be eminently downvote-worthy, but of course you didn't say any of that. It's sort of like someone making a "both sides" comment after Charlottesville, it's hard to make a comment like that without it sounding like a dog whistle for some really bad people.

Illegal immigration is a big problem that directly affects citizens, unlike the foreign interventionism in the Middle East. Do you really think 12.5+ million illegal immigrants isn't a big deal? The system isn't adequate if that many can get in.

https://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal-immigration/how-many-il...

>that somehow necessitates things like building a giant border wall

Do you want to tear down the existing walls? San Diego's seems like a success: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxhhjfiSy2Y

Walls are relatively cheap, dumb tech. A wall is potentially an investment: https://cis.org/Can-Border-Wall-Pay-Itself

>and enabling ICE, etc

So you don't want illegal immigrants to be removed? I don't understand.

The United States of America had open immigration for the first 100 years or so. Not open citizenship, mind you, but open immigration. It wasn't until after the Civil War that SCOTUS forced the federal government to implement an immigration policy. Until then, this was the land of the free, and the home of the brave.

Yes, before there were government-funded social programs and we were largely agrarian.

They are certainly welcome to try and succeed.

While no one should ever be dehumanized they should be reported accurately. Criminals (one who has broken the law) Illegal immigrate, Economic migrant.

I'm not sure how this issue plays out in the US but in Europe most of the media refuse to acknowledge this fact when reporting stories like this.

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