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Comment by Matt3o12_ | Hacker News Reader

This seems to be PR move since not a lot of people can participate and only $300 of the legal fees are reimbursed:

> Open to legal residents of the 50 U.S. (including D.C.), who are the parents or legal guardians of a child 14 years of age or younger operating a lemonade stand. Program ends 11:59pm ET on 8/31/18 or when $60,000 worth of offers have been awarded, whichever comes first. For complete Terms and Conditions, including status of available offers, and all other details, visit countrytimelegalade.com.

> [From the article]: You can’t even be 13 or younger to participate due to child privacy laws

Nevertheless, aren’t there any laws that help such “hobbies“ (considering how little money that should make, and that underage children are voluntarily “working”, one can’t really call it a “business”.

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Well, if my anecdotal experience -- literally just a few minutes ago -- is any indication, it's a brilliant PR move. I read the story to my wife this morning and she said "Awww, and I just purchased Country Time Lemonaid" and went on and on about how cool it was that they were doing that.

I suspect that cases of government bureaucracy interfering with children's lemonaid stands is a pretty rare thing. I don't have any evidence handy but my suspicions originate from the fact that whenever some child's lemonaid stand gets shut down it seems to make its way into newspapers all throughout the country -- if it were a common occurrence, it wouldn't be newsworthy. So it's an easy win - it drums up some happy feelings for the kool-aid equivalent of lemonaid, reminds government bureaucrats that there are better uses for their resources and might result in them having to spend $300, maybe $600 dollars in related complaints if I'm correct about its rarity.

It definitely doesn't hurt their image, but it also informs the public about an issue they care about. There is only so much they can do, especially because of child privacy laws. But it's getting the word out about regulation they deem unnecessary.

I haven't seen a lemonade stand in a long time, but I would cross two streets to support a little entrepreneur.

>only $300 of the legal fees are reimbursed

How much do you think these permits cost? At $25 each, 2,400 kids could take advantage of it. They're unlikely to be $300 on average.

>You can’t even be 13 or younger to participate due to child privacy laws

This is true of everything on the internet. The intent is for the parent to be the one signing up, as it explains in the next sentence.

If you've been fined for failing to obtain a business license, is the gist of what they're doing, not paying for the license.

They're doing both.

>There are two ways to enter: (1) If your child received a fine for operating a lemonade stand without a permit during the 2017 or 2018 calendar year, take a photo of the fine and a write brief description of what your child's lemonade stand means to him or her, in his or her own words. (2) If you are seeking reimbursement for a permit, follow the instructions to upload the image of the permit for 2018 and a brief description of what your child's lemonade stand means to him or her, in his or her own words.

https://www.countrytimelegalade.com/public/fulfillment/rules...

I don’t think it’s just about being a business - it’s also about not being inspected properly for health reasons isn’t it? The same problems exist I believe for volunteers who prepare food for homeless people.

I suspect you are correct - I seem to recall that the last time this landed in the national news it was specific to health code, not business permits.

The chances of improperly producing lemonade that also doesn't have a bad taste seems de nullis. It's like banning you from putting on a band-aid on a friend, because that's practicing medicine.

New from Johnson & Johnson: "Band-Ade! Tired of all those lonely nights in jail because you helped a friend with a bandage? Here at J&J we've established a legal fund to ensure..."

> improperly producing lemonade that also doesn't have a bad taste

You can't taste food poisoning. Go smell a fresh chicken. It smells like chicken, even if it's riddled with campylobacter or salmonella.

> The same problems exist I believe for volunteers who prepare food for homeless people.

Let's be honest, cities don't want volunteers feeding the homeless because they want them in someone else's back-yard, so they'll use any regulatory tricks and fines they can (inc. arresting the volunteers) to stop it.

in most localities the police won't even stop unless someone calls. usually you see that in a HOA but in the one I am subject to they just asked them to be in the cul de sac, it would only shut down when you guessed it, some anonymous neighbor called the cops.

so yes you can also lay claim to health issues but let us be honest, you don't have to drink it to play along. as long as its obviously just kids having fun and not parents exploiting kids for cuteness to get money where is the harm.

the occupational other license requirements in the US is just insane.

I don't think I'll ever really understand this law. If you invite someone into your home for a meal (that you don't charge for), you're not subjected to health department regulation. How exactly is it different to prepare food for homeless people in your home? What if you invite them for dinner instead of taking it to them? Why are you subject to regulations in one scenario but not the other, given that the end goal is identical - to give away food to people who want to eat.

Genuine question... I don't get it.

Food regulations are for health. When you feed your own family and friends, fine. When you ramp up to feeding dozens or hundreds, then you can make a whole community sick with one mistake in the kitchen.

Its a practical threshold to help avoid spread of disease. Not an ivory-tower absolute. Local municipalities can and do vary on the details.

Okay, I understand this point.

But I also see community events where they grab half a dozen barbecues and feed thousands of people. Untrained volunteers manning the barbecues, that haven't been inspected and lord knows when they were last cleaned. Nobody seems to care, in fact most people in the community seem to love these, me included - paying for the possibility of getting sick just because "barbecuueeee." </homer>

There seems to be extremely large grey areas where enforcement turns a blind eye, no matter how the regulations are written. I'm not complaining by any means, I love community barbecues and social events and I would hate to see health regulators interfering with their spirit, but it seems as though they pick and choose what they enforce and ignore based entirely on the mood of the supervisor on any given day.

> but it seems as though they pick and choose what they enforce and ignore based entirely on the mood of the supervisor on any given day

More charitably, I'd say they use their professional judgement and assess risk.

I would agree - more charitably :P

I say this as a dispassionate observer - sometimes it seems their professional judgment is less professional and more emotional and their risk assessment based on whether or not they'll catch hell for ignoring it or if anyone will care.

In theory, and at least in my area, you can/should get a temporary permit. My fire department had to do so in order to sell hotdogs at a fundraising bazaar.

I agree... but as they say the gap between theory and practice is less in theory than it is in practice.

It varies greatly depending on the local jurisdiction but the two most common factors for if you need a health permit are - Are you charging for the food? or Is the size of the portion over a specific size (commonly 2oz).

I have a line of BBQ rubs and sauces. In my area, if I got to a retailer and hand out free samples of product (for example BBQ sauce on pulled pork) then there is no health permit required. However if I sell BBQ sandwiches then a health department permit (and the associated inspections) are required.

In some areas I would be able to sell samples without a permit as long as they were 2oz or less. That is how many chili or "people's choice" type competitions work.

>Food regulations are for health.

Some of them maybe, but like with almost all regulations today they have been expanded far far far beyond what is needed just for public safety.

I will need to see if I can find the story again, but I remember a video outlining how the government health inspectors shut down a cheese making outfit because it did not comply with health codes due to the process, and when they switch to the "approved" method the cheese ended up being harmful to eat where it was not under the original process that was not allowed by government.

Further the regulations on feeding homeless are just a method to shut down charity because the city does not want homeless people in their town, these charities keep them around so if they shut down the charities feeding them the city believes the homeless will move on... (or die they don't really care as long as they do not have to see them)

The laws aren't about protecting the honeless against unsafely prepared food. The purpose of the laws is to make it more difficult to provide meals to the homeless.

Localities that pass them do so to encourage the homeless to move to another jurisdiction where they can more easily get food.

Not just a PR move but a BRILLIANT one! For a commitment of $60,000 in $300 chunks they are going to get millions of dollars worth of free advertising in the form of news stories.

You (and the author) are misunderstanding the age requirements. It's _only_ open to kids 14 and younger, it just legally goes through their parents. I don't think kids 15 and up are usually the ones running lemonade stands.

Of course it'a a PR stunt. And it's a damn good one.

> who are the parents or legal guardians of a child 14 years of age

Essentially confirming that the parent/guardian is over 13 for privacy reasons (you'd certainly hope they would be in any case), not the child operating the stand.

It's perhaps one of the most blatant PR moves there is, and it's an incredibly good one.

Of course it’s a PR move. Who would ever think it’s not?

Definitely a PR move. What 14 year-old is running a lemonade stand? I would guess there will be zero claims made.

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