You're never too old to learn to code
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dev.to
Coding is a calling. You can learn anything if you have the calling for it. If you learn because you 'should' (ie, it's encouraged by others and or/money) you will end up being average at it, at best.
Coding is not for everyone, it's a pipe dream. It's not because all modern tech is based on it that you should learn it -- same way as Lewis Hamilton doesn't need to be a car mechanic to be a good driver.
I've started programming at 12yo, got my first paid gig at 16, and I haven't stopped being a 'programmer' (as they used to be called) since, and I'm now 49yo. I can't imagine NOT doing any 'coding'. In that time I saw countless average/bad programmers (and there are more and more of them) who /probably/ would have been better trying to follow a calling of their own...
As far as having a successful career as a programmer, I think there is one major trap I've seen many, many programmers fall into. And that is 'mind sclerosis' -- ie refusal to evolve with the time/tools. People who are actually quite/very good at one set of tools sometime refuse to evolve and down these favorite toys in favor of what is perceived (often, they are) as inferior replacements. Problem is, 5 years down the line, they are no longer employable. I've seen that too many times to count.
The NEXT trap is to realize that your time is limited. You can't learn everything and you have to be very, VERY selective on the set of tech you want to invest your time in. Don't bangwagon on stuff -- ask yourself whether it's likely to be a selleable skill -- if not, don't waste time on it.
For me, I actually feel passionate about tech choices because some tech is just awesome and fun. Most of the enterprise shit is not fun at all, but very sellable.
But as a junior Dev, I would start with sellable of course.
Sometime it's worth 'gambling' too -- for example in 2012 I went all 3d-printer-y, learned everything firmware, hardware, design tools etc -- my justification was a bit 'thin' as in "perhaps it's the new 'micro computer' generation and I'd better be on it" -- 9 months later I decided it wasn't, and dropped it mostly.
Then 2 years later I landed a HUGE paying job completely related to that tech, completely out of the blue, and that more than repaid the time I spent on it.
What's wrong with being average and making a living ? assuming of course there's place for average people in this field ? someone need to write those simple but boring CRUD.
"You should really have someone better than you doing this."
Try asking the internet a database or encryption question. Many times people wont even nudge you into a google search, they just shut the question down.
To program means learning advanced IMO. I have a hard time considering these 'software engineers' who have been doing Android Testing for 6 years 'programmers'.
On the flip side, you get some random 20 some year old kid with no formal training that builds the next gen blockchain.
You can do lots of stuff as an average programmer, but they cannot do anything alone.
This stands in many other industries of course, but the point is that not pushing for being better is not a viable long-term strategy if you need to earn a living from it.
But there is also the problem that average is relative. I consider myself average, when comparing to the best developer in my company. But I am sure he considers himself average when comparing himself to other outstanding famous developers.
Also, you'll be the first to be obsoleted, automated, replaced by a nice framework made by someone who had an itch to scratch at the other end of the world; you know, a weird guy with a calling ;-)
I do realize I'm lucky to do a job I still love, but my originally point is that perhaps we shoudn't 'force' people into a path they won't enjoy ; worse, you might make quite a few unhappy ones if some realize they aren't made for it after a while.
The "coding is easy, come and play" slogans we see around are false advertising.
I don't think anybody is being "forced" into coding.
It might be for some, but for many I suspect it is a job. An interesting job, but a job nevertheless. Elevating what is essentially an economic activity to the level of a "calling" seems strange to me.
I've been developing software professionally for over 25 years. I think I'm reasonably good at it, although I'm no rockstar dev. I enjoy working with software and it scratches an intellectual itch, but I wouldn't say it makes me happy and I certainly don't see it as something I'm "called" to. I don't see this as an obstacle and I hope there continues to be plenty of room for people like me.
I'm not quite the OPs age, but I'm in his orbit. When people like us started doing it, there was zero economic incentive, at least for me. It was something we just loved doing, like drawing or writing music, or writing stories. We just got lucky that it ended up being lucrative. That's what he means by being a calling.
In fact, in college, I seriously considered not doing coding as a profession because I liked it so much as a hobby. I believed if I had to do it for a job, I would fall out of love with it. Fortunately I ignored those concerns and have been coding professionally since the late 90s.
Folks have been making an upper-middle class living writing code since at least the late 70s (when my Mom started). There has always been an economic incentive. Now maybe no one was paying your sixteen year old self to write shitty JS code for that game idea you had, but if one had a BS in CS there were plenty of companies willing to pay you generously for your time.
Lol. JS didn't exist when I was 16, but way to miss the point! Ask your mom how many people knew anything about the computers in the 70s and 80s. It was a very small group of mainly ostracized kids. They certainly weren't doing it to get rich.
Which is why I used it as an example. No need to get personal.
Ask your mom how many people knew anything about the computers in the 70s and 80s.
Don't have to ask, I was there. And the number is irrelevant. Point is, you said there was "zero economic incentive". I'm saying there was plenty of incentive. Perhaps that wasn't your incentive, but that doesn't mean it didn't exist. Because it existed for others, and given that it was their primary incentive, they didn't always enjoy their jobs very much.
Eh, if you don't want backlash, maybe you shouldn't throw out things like this: "your sixteen year old self to write shitty JS code"
>you said there was "zero economic incentive"
I said, "there was zero economic incentive, at least for me." If you're going to be pedantic, at least read what I wrote.
You're just bound and determined to take offense, eh? Let me rephrase: "no need to make it personally about you, Clubber".
If you're going to be pedantic, at least read what I wrote.
I read just fine: "When people like us started doing it, there was zero economic incentive..."
>I read just fine: "When people like us started doing it, there was zero economic incentive..."
Lol. "You didn't build that..."
No more than anything else could be.
I've found that after time, it's better to look at it from a much more pragmatic view. When I feel 'it's a calling' I get caught up in perfection and bike shedding. When I treat it like work and focus on outcomes ... stuff gets done :)
If you don't know your calling, finding it can be an expensive process. You can spend years and years and years trying it and frankly, there's bills to pay, even if trying new callings costs $0. Housing and healthcare in the US is outpacing the lowest paying jobs.
So yes, people hack their way into tech because then you can use the savings to do something else. In fact, I tried two callings and they both turned out to be expensive mistakes until I found out I happened to be useful to someone at programming. I still treat it as a career that I'm going to maximize my pay with. No one's sold me on having crazy passions in this industry because things change so rapidly. The required learning rate is also vastly oversold. Even front end development is settling into component frameworks.
Plus, if one guy with a neckbeard comes along and tells you "this ain't your calling, kid", should you really believe him? Maybe he's right, but maybe the next 10 people you meet could have the opposite opinion. In my experience, few people are actually brazen enough to tell a co-worker something like this, so you're not likely to get a good sample size anyway.
I would venture to guess that where you land on some largely imaginary "calling" scale affects your performance as a coder less than where you fall on the very real intelligence bell curve.
I roll my eyes sometimes when I hear about guys transitioning to software from the hard sciences because of the hype or money or whatever, but there is no denying that some of them have been extremely good at the job, quite a bit better than "average at best."
As someone with limited health and daily brain power I struggle with this. I have played with a number of programming languages and have made a bit of money with programming but I'd like to have deeper knowledge of a language and it's ecosystem. I have been struggling to decide which technology I should focus the most to be both more employable and work on my projects. Many of the projects I want to do involve websockets.
Should I focus on something like react/node/socketcluster or react/phoenix? Focusing on only Javascript might seem like the right answer on the surface but the documentation for node is quite poor and fragmented for things that are not the standard express + mongo stack. Node looks harder to learn when compared to phoenix and elixir looks like the best tool for the job. On the other hand there are a lot more jobs for node and almost none for elixir.
I'm currently thinking to focus on javascript for frontend and elixir for the back so I'm both able to find JS related jobs and work on my websocket projects while having an easier time with documentation and working with an exciting and pleasant language.
In contrast, new and exciting ecosystems (like Elixir) give you the opportunity to become a big fish in a small pond. There is the risk that the language/framework will never become popular (and maybe even fizzle out) but at least you will enjoy your time with it.
And my answer was always: learning to code is fucking hard. For everyone. Staring at code for hours not sure why it's not working is something we've all faced, but those who find coding a "calling", who find the process of coding so magical and alluring that it's almost an addiction, they see the roadblocks as part of the fun. Because at the end of every obstacle that is overcome is a little endorphine hit, and is another leveling up of our problem solving ability, of our general skillset.
Without that sense of calling it would be easy to give up, to chalk it up to "not being for me". But in the end, the draw wasn't great enough to compensate for the pain.
No, a job as a Christian pastor (being the first to come to mind) is a "calling". Shitty pay, every single person in a pew is your "boss", little-to-no retirement plan and 24/7 pager duty with no pager bonus. But, hey, you're not in it for the money. A job with flexible hours, employer matching, and a six figure salary is a "damned cushy job", not a calling. It might be for some, but it is not a given.
That said, the same thing went on in the 80s: "hey, programming pays pretty well, and there's not enough programmers! Get in now!" What we ended up with were quite a few folks that weren't particularly well-suited for the role who continued to do it because, well, you gonna walk away from that paycheck? Those I knew didn't particularly like their job. Those are the ones who only know COBOL after twenty years. I imagine it's only gotten worse as word gets around about what top engineers at Google are making (which none of the rest of us ever stand a chance of making).
Many of us didn't learn coding because it was lucrative, we learned at a young age because the intimate relationship between mind and machine drew us further in. You played a game and wondered how it was programmed, how could a bit of light in the screen could know when other bit of light touched it? It was a challenging and rewarding hobby that luckily turned lucrative. Even if it cost me money, I would still code things as a hobby.
If coding didn't exist, I'm sure I would be doing electronics. Curiously, once I dreamed electronics also didn't exist, so I had to become a watchmaker.
I remember clearly one day when I was about 10 yo, I was walking to school, and there was that question poping in my head about what I really wanted to do, and there was only one reply in my head -> programming computers. It felt so totally cool to be able to do that. Note than nobody in my near, middle or far social circle was involved, but I was an avid reader that I've read about it, and I thought it was fascinating. That was 'calling' to me. Hasn't changed.
Funnily enough I also 'graduated' myself to electronics the last 10 years, and I've tinkered with cameras, and watches... One thing I'm seriously looking into is to get my first 'project' pinball as well. Bring it on ;-)
I actually think it's great. Keeps me young and valued because experienced people are so scarce.
According to jetbrains survey, 85% of developers work on weekends.
Yes yes- as one grows older, one learns more slowly etc etc. I will quote the words of Rita Levi-Montalcini:
“At 100, I have a mind that is superior – thanks to experience – than when I was 20” [1].
Would it that we could all have as long, productive and intellectually rewarding life as she had. Is all I'm going to say.
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[1] https://iainews.iai.tv/articles/rita-levi-montalcini-the-nob...
First, there is a real reason. Young people are more likely to be engaged with newer knowledge, technology, tools and such. That's balanced against older people being more experienced. It's particularly relevant in the software space, but the youthful exuberance VS experienced sobriety trade-off exists in all fields. Think of medicine, architecture, art...
The bigger reason (imo) for the bias is entirely arbitrary. Software is a new, rapidly growing field. There aren't many 50-something coders because most people start a profession in their youth and there wasn't as much code in their youth.
Far fewer people learned to code in the 80s than today. So.. the total number of people who code is skewed young. People see way more young coders than old ones. They assume only young people can code.
The point about people learning more new things in their youth is valid regardless of field.
Citation very much needed. Because that sounds like pure ageism. Who invented all the devices young people love to consume media on...?
That, too, requires a citation. It's not an unreasonable assumption to make, but then so is the assumption that, as time goes by, the chance to encounter new knowledge increases so that older people will tend to have more knowledge than younger ones.
Let's not just embrace either assumption without good reason, is what I'm saying. Especially when there is a chance of further validating damaging cultural biases.
I do not call myself an engineer.
I've been thinking about getting back into coding after a multi-decade hiatus. I taught myself to code in my early 20's. Coded through my early 30's and have been in management roles (involving software development or for technology companies) ever since.
I went from Perl to Java (hated Java) to PHP and have played around with tons of languages (just enough to complete the project) in between. Right now, PHP is my go-to language for my own projects simply because I'm used to it.
I still hack stuff. I run a few websites. I write plugins for WordPress. I write little PHP or Bash scripts to automate some stuff on my server.
Recently, I've been diving into Swift. I hope to get good enough at that, that I can get a remote job and semi-retire. For me, working from home would be almost like working part-time. I don't mean that it's that easy, just that a lot of management and office politics is so soul sucking that it feels like you're working 24 hours a day.
It's tough coming back. But, I've never strayed too far from coding to begin with.
It seems the advantage I have is experience. I've been there and done that before, even if I wasn't the one writing the code. Even being in management, I still enjoy sitting in a room with engineers and white boarding solutions.
And having worked in management, I have a better understanding of the "why" behind features and can suggest different paths to get to the same outcome.
I guess I'll find out if you're too old to code when I start looking for jobs :-)
I thought I had the perfect remote gig a little while ago, but the organization was so insipid and backwards that I had to leave. I found a job that's perfect for me and is a short commute and enjoy it way better.
I have savings that I don't want to have to tap into so I can just let it grow for another 10 years or so. Really, I just need to make enough to cover my monthly expenses and have health insurance.
Also, I've managed development projects across multiple continents (US, Europe, Middle-East, and Asia), so I'm hoping that I have a pretty good understanding of what management needs to make them feel comfortable.
It's probably a little different for me because I'm not necessarily looking to advance my career the way someone earlier in their career might. Obviously, I want to do a good job and add value, but I could just as easily teach scuba diving or something.
I code because I like it. It also pays better than average. A good combo.
Wow. Would be great to hear further details around what happened there.
Maybe the rules should have stated a maximum about of experience for the chosen tech/programming language.
The issue typically is that it’s hard (for even existing programmers) maintain the focus to write code 8 hours a day 5 days a week, months on end, at any age, and so it often doesn’t work out.
Expecting people to massively learn programming as we know it is an illusion and even a scam (like bootcamps).
Although you may face some challenges as an adult coder, learning to code can be one of the most rewarding things you can do as a human being, and there is no reason to let societies biases stop you from following your dreams. In this article, we are going to talk about how you can overcome any potential bias and how you probably have a lot more advantages than you think.
Let your work speak for itself The beautiful thing about tech is that it is a show and prove industry. You don't need a license to pimp out your portfolio or create an epic Chrome extension. Showcase your skills by creating a collection of side projects and demo applications. This is how your creativity can set you apart from the pack, regardless of your age. Let your website/portfolio show your personality and your projects on GitHub; showcase your creativity and problem-solving skills.
Don't wear a suit Listen, I get it. You want to take your career seriously. But if you walk into an interview wearing a full three-piece suit & meanwhile the person interviewing you is wearing a t-shirt, it is going to get a little bit awkward. I am not saying you have to wear a t-shirt. Do your research and ask the interviewer beforehand what the dress code is when setting up the appointment for an in-person interview.
Leveraging Industry Knowledge This is a big one. If you have been an investment banker or accountant for the last 20 years and you are just starting a new career in tech at age 45, you might feel as though you have no relevant work experience, but you couldn't be more wrong.
Today, every company is becoming a tech company in some way shape or form. (And the ones who don't evolve are going extinct.) Now more than ever, software developers are in high demand at a wide range of organizations, not only Silicon Valley startups.
If you are coming from a career in another field, consider applying to the tech department in that industry or disrupt that industry in a tech startup that focuses on that vertical. Your domain expertise is super valuable and relevant at this point. At a FinTech startup, the fact that you have 20 years experience in finance AND you know how to code is a HUGE asset that can set you apart from your younger less experienced counterparts.
Project Management Another advantage to having a wealth of previous job experience is the ability to work with and manage a team of people. If you ever held any managerial role in another industry, I would highly recommend taking a course on SCRUM and learning the fundamental principles of running an Agile Software development team. Your people skills and seniority can be a benefit to an organization looking for a tech team lead where you are skilled at coding but also at managing the timeline and product backlog of a project.
Overcoming Bias Depending on where you want to apply, there can be varying amounts of age bias. The fact is that Millennials and Gen Z make up for close to 50% of the tech workforce and when you look specifically at Silicon Valley tech startups, that number is even higher. At some companies, the bias might be worse than others, and a lot of it is subliminal and subconscious.
Ageism in the Tech Industry is a real thing, but hopefully, this article provided you with some insights into overcoming age bias and even using your seniority to your advantage.
Let me know your thoughts in the comment section below.
That's interesting. What was the fear? That your years of experience and additional knowledge would be an unfair advantage?
I guess this varies from country to country but personally I think that's bad advice.
In my experience it's better to be over dressed than underdressed.
I'm in my 40s and have never worked anywhere that had a formal dress code, it's always been wear what you want unless you're talking to a customer. I pretty much expect most dev jobs to be jeans and t-shirts.
I'm a contractor now so do quite a few interviews and a suit to an interview is an easy choice.
You look like you give a shit when you turn up and you can make a joke with the interviewer about being overdressed to break the ice.
Much harder to do it the other way round.
Today I routinely wear a nice button up shirt and designer jeans (the "cheap" $80 kind not the $500 ones) to work. Which is overdressed still but I feel it is a nice medium.'
Occasionally I'll take in a Broadway play (when it travels to Boston) and I always wear a suite. Sure, half the people there will probably be in T-Shirts but I like dressing nice. 15 years ago they probably wouldn't have even let you in without a suite.
Edit: As one might gather from my lats comment. I'm North East USA (New England). NE is very different culturally from any part of the country. We are closest to California but here suites are more common.
Do your full time job, do unpaid overtime, then go home and code code code some more.
Fine advice from someone who has only just learned themselves...