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Comment by lalos | Hacker News Reader

About the tech bro (and less of the successful CEO) problem, I think it is getting out of hand. Service workers (waiters, drivers, etc) in SF complain constantly of their behavior. What's funny its that it's usually the new blood, junior devs that behave like this. Why do they think they are kings of the world if they are on the lowest chain in the tech world? I want to sympathize with them but just can't understand their thought process. Also I've had issues with them, I saw a group of tech bros touching all the keyboards of the Computer History Museum, they don't even respect their own history or are grateful of why they are here to begin with. Maybe it's just that enough people are in tech now that we have a percentage of bad apples by pure stats. It worries me, since we are getting stereotyped by what I hope is a loud minority.

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> Why do they think they are kings of the world if they are on the lowest chain in the tech world?

I can't help noticing that this is the same stereotype as young finance guys in NYC, and it's not hard to imagine it's the same dynamic. Young, motivated, wealthy, but new to wealth and powerless in their field. They're working long hours, on call, making no decisions, poorly paid compared to other people in their field - but outside the office they can throw around money and make demands. And, yeah, often grossly inexperienced with acting like adults and having control of things.

Obviously there are plenty of people at the top of the finance world who are terrible, but note that the stereotypes there are different. Some end up dignified and anonymously super-rich. The ones who don't are defined by egomania, ludicrous risk-taking, and behavior that moves from rude to grotesque and illegal. Not all that different than some of the wilder SV stories, honestly.

Being the bottom of their professional world doesn't contradict that behavior, it explains it.

(Of course, I still have some major frustrations with the stereotyping of software in general as being like this. It still appears vastly less bad than a lot of less-maligned fields, but it's a newer bogeyman that's more interesting to yell at.)

>Why do they think they are kings of the world if they are on the lowest chain in the tech world?

You're talking about a bunch of kids who've come through a system where their core interests, skills, talents and personality types make them at best a permanent member of the out-group, at worst a constant target of derision or outright bullying.

Having navigated that system, they've now successfully got through a grueling degree or more and have landed themselves into a spot where no longer are they the out-group, they are the group. Not only that, they're making good money and are getting to do something they love to do, with people like themselves. They're more comfortable in themselves, and to be themselves, but their lack of social skills often shines through.

I've considered myself to be somewhat of a bridge between the nerds and the non-nerds throughout my life, having been in sports but also making time to code/hang out with those deemed to be the nerds, and I'm honestly sick of the constant attacks being perpetuated on these kids who've "made it" in tech by the very same types who made comments about or excluded them earlier in life.

The pilot fish of the tech industry, particularly tech "journalists", are far more toxic actors than anything deeply seated within it.

With the caveat below, I think this is dead-on — particularly when coupled with 'imgabe's point [0] (backed by research [1]) that people of lower status often abuse/bully/denigrate others whom they perceive to be of even lower status, in effort to appear (or at least feel) like they're higher status than they actually are, themselves.

> The pilot fish of the tech industry, particularly tech "journalists", are far more toxic actors than anything deeply seated within it.

This, however, is a pretty substantial (and at least from the text of your comment, unsupported) claim. Can you elaborate?

EDIT: Phrasing, footnotes

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17257957

[1] http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal....

Can you expand on more toxic actors and journalists? Is it journalist that grab buzzwords and go on with it? I have no idea of where you are going with that but I feel you will have a strong point.

About the bullying and being the group, in my mind when you've been thru bad moments you understand how hard and in theory you should be making it easier for the rest when you have power since you were on the other side of the coin. That is why I can't relate, if you had a hard time you know how hard it can get. Why become the bully/idiot you hated?

I'm way too old to be a tech bro. But back in my day, (early 90's prior to, and during, the first dot com frenzy), a large number of what we called "douchebags" started moving to San Fran. Male and Female.

I think these were likely the precursors of today's male and female "Tech Bros". They really were terrible. Anyway, I left San Fran and that was it for me as far as Silicon Valley living. I've had the good fortune to have had a couple of exits since, despite not living in the Bay area. But I'm positive a lot of that was just luck. Nowadays, I'm not sure it's still possible to get that lucky without having to move to the Bay area at some point. So I feel for you young guys and gals who have to just deal with the Tech Bros, (and the Tech Sis's), until your "boat comes in" so to speak.

> Why do they think they are kings of the world if they are on the lowest chain in the tech world?

Probably the same reason that it's never the most popular kid who's the bully, but someone a couple rungs down. People who feel insecure about their status need to make a big deal of asserting it.

I have worked in tech for 15 years, around the world, an have never met this mythical "tech bro".

Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

I definitely knew some in undergrad. I went the grad school route though, so I haven't seen them so much in industry.

> have never met this mythical "tech bro"

The typical SF tech bro stereotype: Youngish white guy, BS in CS from Michigan, lack of self awareness, enjoys Pliny the Younger, Barry's Bootcamp, standup, rides a boosted board to work in SOMA.

(This is not meant as a critique, I probably satisfy a number of these checkboxes myself...)

That's what a bro is? No wonder I've been so confused these past few years.

A fresh grad, new to SF that doesn't yet realize he can't unironically like trendy beers, workout routines or gauche means of conveyance?

That's not a bro! You guys just needed a word for cultural immigrants that haven't assimilated yet without making yourselves sound like bitter townies, didn't you?

I'm not sure this is what 'tech bro' means to most people, because the term also gets applied to California natives who went to Stanford. (Obviously the completely inconsistent usage of the term is an issue in its own right.)

But you do strike a chord with "a word for cultural immigrants that haven't assimilated yet". I know one person from the rural midwest who studied CS, landed in the Valley, and ended up leaving for some midwestern company - earning less money for work he liked less - because he couldn't assimilate. He swore teaching English in Japan had been less stressful and shocking than trying to keep up with the demands and hostility of SF culture, and honestly I don't find it hard to believe.

I've had people quite sincerely tell me that there's no such thing as "Bay Area culture", just an expectation that people do the right thing. I suppose it's one of those "fish in water" situations, but I still have trouble understanding the amount of hubris required to say "oh, other people have cultures, we just have the right way of behaving".

I can only agree on the lack of self awareness. Lack of understanding that they live on a community and everybody is doing their part. Giving respect to every one even if they earn a fifth of what you earn and treating everyone as dignified people. Also, lack of empathy not everyone goes on the same speed.

Why pick Michigan of all the universities for this stereotype?

If you don't see the tech bro in the room maybe you are the tech bro. I'm completely joking but I had to say it.

I think it is mainly seen in SF or huge cities that's why I proposed the numbers thing. I haven't heard the same comments from Seattle for example. Also, if you live in SF maybe explicitly ask carsharing drivers and waiters about them, they will start ranting.

The term tech bro to me sounds like nerd bro or geek bro, or nerd jocks. Who identifies as a tech bro?

> Why do they think they are kings of the world if they are on the lowest chain in the tech world?

Becuase they're the top of the food chain where they came from.

I came from a small, poor town. I was never a "tech bro." My parents stressed humility, and in particular, my dad said, "All work is honorable" which isn't true exactly, but the point was not to look down on people. I'd also had jobs at Walmart, Subway, etc. before college...

At about 26 my income went from NOTHING to low six figures in the early 2000's. I made more money in a day then I made in a month. I was living in a nice house, driving a nice car. For the first time in my life, I walked into a dealership and bought the car I wanted, not something I could afford. I took a loan for a modest sports car because I'd never had a loan before. But I could have paid cash.

Having come from a small, poor town-- that was a big deal to me. Most of the people I grew up with were just trying to make rent each month.

It is so easy to let that go to your head. I am sure I did a few times.

I have to agree with your dad as long as your work is not illegal or causing severe damage to part of the community. The honorable part is usually discarded if you are cleaning toilets for a living but I've talked with people at work that have that job and there is honor to it. They usually have big dreams for their kids and talk about sacrificing themselves for them to have just a little bit of a better life. Also they ask for advice on how to get them interested in tech and things that they don't have the time to sit down and get a grasp of. That is the definition of honorable.

Thank you for sharing your introspection! You seem like a great person.

> Thank you for sharing your introspection! You seem like a great person.

My ex wife would disagree, but thank you. :)

"Why do they think they are kings of the world if they are on the lowest chain in the tech world? "

They haven't gone through a downturn like 2002. Until then I thought I am the king of the world. Then I quickly realized that I am not as smart and self-made as I thought.

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