Passé présomptif: on Vercingetorix
the-tls.co.uk
the-tls.co.uk
I was really surprised to see a whole chapter dedicated to Ancient Gaul, a place I had never even heard of until then. Brits may begin their history with Rome, but us Americans seem to start our tale in England (with perhaps a very small nod to the native cultures that predated English colonization). Anyhow, it's fascinating from the American perspective how relatively "young" we really are as a national identity.
I recall a line from "The 5th Element" movie:
- Are you classified as human ?
- Negative, I'm a meat popsicle
Well, not only Bruce Willis has a killer french voice actor, but they translated it to:
- Êtes-vous classifié comme humain ?
- Négatif, je suis un mite en pull-over
"Négatif, je suis un mite en pull-over" means "Negative, I'm a moth in a sweater". Which is nowhere close to the original, but equally funny and nonsensical, and matches the lips movement perfectly.
Now I just resolved myself to go to see a non french movie at the theater only if it's the original version. Dubbing became so bad, it's like they use the same 10 voice actors for all the movies, and the writers are bored junior interns.
That reminds me of the French traduction of Discworld, an amazing work by Patrick Couton.
I'm afraid you are very much mistaken here. Having had the chance to look at primary school history book in four different countries (FR, DE, JP, US), written in four different languages, they each tell a vastly different tale.
Which doesn't mean they were necessarily contradicting each other, but rather spoke of entirely different things, or shone a completely different light on a particular event.
To give two simplistic examples, try to compare what is taught about Napoleon in French history book (he's a national hero) vs. German ones (he's depicted as the Hitler of his time). And try to go read about the history of WWII in a Japanese history book, you'll be amazed.
Incidentally, the "passé présomptif" is also much used for writing about Shakespeare: a similar phenomenon. Now I know what to call it.
>"In schools, Our Island Story starts with Roman Britain, [...]" //
I'd have thought that was because Britain wasn't a thing until the Roman conquest. AFAICT prior to Roman occupation there wasn't a Britain, there were different tribes, but they weren't united in to a nation, they weren't even a loose affiliation.
When it notes that some Iceni tried to revolt, that tells you exactly why British history is started there. Otherwise it would be "some Britons tried to revolt".
What's he doing in the imagined prose when he gives French words in parentheticals, I don't get it. And shouldn't it be "knows [savait]" rather than connaisait?
> And shouldn't it be "knows [savait]" rather than connaisait?
No, connaître is the right word. If you took French class, you probably learned that you "savoir" a thing or skill and you "connaître" a person, but that's not the correct dichotomy. Instead, "savoir" is more for knowing concrete, particular facts, while "connaître" is a weaker, vaguer familiarity, almost more like "to know about" or "to know of" rather than "to know". In this usage, Vercingetorix isn't implied to have had these skills themselves but rather to know of them.
... on re-reading the OP I see I misunderstood the English, when the writer says "come to know the skill", I thought he meant Vercingetorix had become skilled -- and that this was hyperbole intended to highlight the ludicrous stretches of imagination possible with passé présomptif. Rather the writer means Vercingetorix came to know of the skills others possessed. Ah! Maintenant, je le comprends.
That's not imagined prose. That's an excerpt from the book in translation, with the original French verb used in brackets.
The modern British nation is culturally descended from the post-Roman Anglo-Saxons, not the Celtic Britons who inhabited Roman Britain.
Whoa, that's controversial!
Some English people consider themselves Celts, and some consider themselves Anglo-Saxons. I'm not sure whether it's political or more like being a dog person or a cat person.
The Celtic faction got quite a boost in the nineteenth century, which is when a lot of things that people today think of as Celtic ("Celtic art", for example) were rediscovered, or perhaps, in some cases, some would claim, invented.
Celtic influence in the English language has perhaps been rather ignored: English words that seem almost identical in form and meaning to Welsh or Cornish words have had their etymologies given in dictionaries as "unknown" or "obscure". The distinction between present and present continuous ("I eat" versus "I am eating") is perhaps an example of Celtic influence in English, and it suggests that English was at some point widely spoken by people whose native language was Celtic.
(The Americans' failure to distinguish correctly - from the British point of view - between "I ate" and "I have eaten" is likewise arguably due to American English being at one point widely spoken by people whose native language was German.)
As a lifelong American, I don't think that this is 100% widespread, many of the supposed Americanisms sound borderline "wrong" to me, and the only one I would favor is "She just left" instead of "She's just left".
And, having a German family history myself, I have trouble seeing this as a particularly German phenomenon.
Well, there is that thing she used to say as she went into Warp Spasm just before ploughing into the Romans; "grrraaaaAAARRRGGGGHHH!!".
Historical fact.
This is not true anymore. I was in primary school in the 80' (when you usually learn these things, usually twice) and indeed, the Gaulois mentality was strong.
My children now go to school (the same one btw) and they are repeatibly taught about how good the relationship between the Gaulois and the Romans was. The Gallo-Romains is all the rage now and they supposedly mixed extremely well, each taking from the other three good parts of their culture.
The trade aspect of the Gaulois' work is also highlighted a lot (so they are not shown anymore as warring tribes).
I think my children had a passing info about Vercingétorix but it was very minor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminius
and it isn't used in Asterix either for obvious reasons.