Prisoners Who Care for the Dying and Get Another Chance at Life | Hacker News Reader

Prisoners Who Care for the Dying and Get Another Chance at Life

nytimes.com

63 pointsdsr1241 comments

The article frames this as an act of strange mercy (that prisoners volunteer at a prison hospice).

But as someone not born in the US (although I live here), the existence of a prison hospice with any great number of patients strikes me as an act of unspeakable cruelty. Someone in end-stage palliative care is no risk to society or their victims. The vast majority of those there ought be subject to a compassionate release so they can die with dignity in the care of their family. I cannot fathom that any OECD country besides America would ever have a system like this.

This is probably more compassionate.

On the outside, they’d be admitted to a hospital ER for some acute condition, then funneled to a county run nursing home or one in the hospitals’ network that needed bodies badly enough to accept a Medicaid patient. If the patient were male, that might be far away from family as no facility wants to be stuck with a male Medicaid patient.

If the patient were older, they would do a little better as the initial Medicare reimbursements are higher.

>no facility wants to be stuck with a male Medicaid patient

I'm curious, can you elaborate as to why that is?

It seemed highly likely to me because Medicaid's reimbursement rates are very low.

I understand that Medicaid rates are low, but why the male/female distinction?

In all fairness, when it comes to end-stage palliative care, there is no male/female distinction with respect to the bottom line. They both hit it pretty hard assuming they qualify.

There are a lot more older women than men, and a higher likelihood of getting stuck with a single occupied bed as you cannot bunk male/female.

Nursing homes are an awful, evil business.

Agreed. No hospice could afford 24/7 care. Because prisoners are ~free labor.

> It’s one of the lowest paid jobs available, making just 15 to 32 cents an hour.

>But as someone not born in the US (although I live here)

What is your native country?

Britain probably has terminal cases in prison hospitals. Ian Brady, one of the "moors murderers" and the Kray twins come to mind. Both had people outside pleading their case to be released to die in family. I think Brady died in a secure hospital.

So.. The UK is an OECD country. I think this does happen, albiet at a lower intensity than in the USA

Man, if the UK offered compassionate release to the Kray twins it has gone full bizarro.

They didn't offer. People on the outside pled. It wasn't judged in the public interest AFAIK

Although compare that to the release of the Lockerbie bomber:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_of_Abdelbaset_al-Megra...

Calling that controversial decision would be an understatement.

Unbelievable

The big difference is what Brady did to end up incarcerated, I doubt the inmates in the article committed such horrific crimes.

Nonsense. The SOB who shot and killed my twin brother 31 years ago in the back of his head with a shotgun three times at point-blank range can rot in prison until he dies as far as I am concerned.

Compassion like yours is for the lucky.

Exactly. I’m convinced that this new “death penalty is so horrible” movement has kicked into high gear only because crime rates are low enough and society is segregated enough that many people don’t know any murder victims.

I'm in that movement because of extremely high rate of errors.

That's a reason I respect. The "compassion" angle is one that I don't.

Look at other societies and ask yourself if your type of thinking that drives societal thinking may actually be part of the cause in creating these "monsters". Why are homicide rates so much lower elsewhere (say Europe)? What is it about American society that creates this?

>> until he dies as far as I am concerned

Fortunately, the justice system is not concerned with how you feel about it either. It should assess prisoners purely on their current state and their current danger to society, not on how their victims feel 31 years later(and that should work both ways - someone shouldn't be kept in prison because their victim feels that way, but they also shouldn't be released early because their victim feels compassionate - justice should be blind to both of those).

The justice system is concerned with how I feel. That's why every three years I file a victim impact statement when the killer applies for parole. The review board expressly cites these statements as one of their reasons for non-release.

What does attitudes towards old ppl have to do with oced status

Not everyone in prison is a violent criminal, but danger or no danger I strongly oppose “compassionate release” for any murderer or other severely violent criminal. I don’t see a reason to offer compassion to those who perpetrated malice on innocent victims.

Why not? Do you think if you were born in their position, to their family, in their circumstances, you would be any different? Are you unable to understand the responsibility of NOT the individual and everyone else (parents, peers, society, racism, etc.) in creating the "monster" you deem unfit for being treated, dare I say as a human, and compassionately?

>>Why not? Do you think if you were born in their position, to their family, in their circumstances, you would be any different?

Conversely, does everyone in those circumstances grow up to be a violent offender?

Actually it's more genetic than the environment.

> Do you think if you were born in their position, to their family, in their circumstances, you would be any different?

Yes. No matter what your background is, doing horrible things to others is still a choice.

> But as someone not born in the US (although I live here), the existence of a prison hospice with any great number of patients strikes me as an act of unspeakable cruelty.

That's just the tip of the iceberg. What strikes me as an act of unspeakable cruelty is that people who have been in prison (felon) are no longer allowed to vote, and get the ability to work but below any kind of minimum wage. As soon as we start to treat people as non-human we enter a slippery slope (see Stanford prison experiment).

The only exception I am willing to make to that is people who are insane. But those end up in involuntary commitment.

And even those 2 examples I mentioned are also just the tip of the iceberg. There's so much wrong with our prison system (especially in USA). I did enjoy the series Orange Is The New Black because it highlighted some examples.

I don't understand this opinion. If someone commits a crime, they have broken the social contract and they should no longer enjoy the benefits it provides, including voting. Unless you're saying they should be able to vote a certain number of years after leaving prison, which could be reasonable.

As soon as they're out of prison they're once more a full civilian. Which is not what's happening. Why do those punishments on top of serving jail time or community service exist? Don't you think rehabilitation means that a person fully integrates within society, including the benefits that provides?

> As soon as they're out of prison they're once more a full civilian. Which is not what's happening. Why do those punishments on top of serving jail time or community service exist?

I'll be honest, I don't know enough about the topic to really answer this. Some quick Googling suggest that this is what happens, though. According to this page, [0] many states restore your voting rights automatically after your sentence is completed, and some very liberal ones even allow for voting in prison (which in my opinion is really stupid).

> Don't you think rehabilitation means that a person fully integrates within society, including the benefits that provides?

I don't think that rehabilitation happens instantly, so it makes sense that voting rights be restored after a period of years. Felons need to prove that they can live in the real world again before they can vote to change it.

0: https://www.nonprofitvote.org/voting-in-your-state/special-c...

Interesting, I read elsewhere that it was the way I described and I guess I didn't verify that information. Thanks for the link.

In response to recent elections, I have a friend who decided to counter hate with love and began volunteering in prison. Mostly, it's prayer groups, bible discussions and the like. His strength is something I value, and something I'm not sure I can replicate.

It reminds me of a time when I went to a school in Philadelphia for foster children. These children were between foster homes, generally because they were abused in previous situations. Some of these kids were borderline feral; one, who had been set afire by previous foster parents, was one of the most balanced and normal kids I ever met. Probably, much like hospice care for the workers in this story, that experience has stuck with me.

I don't have any real comment, just that I hope these inmates find peace. Both the caregivers, and the cared for. I'm glad both are there for each other.

Thanks for sharing your friend's story. I know someone who used to be in a gang; I spent a lot of time trying to help him toward a better life incl. bible studies, prayer, providing guidance on difficult topics, etc.

Unfortunately it's very hard to unshackle from that life and I imagine your friend probably encountered much difficulty trying to help the folks in prison. Even if you don't feel like you can replicate his efforts, I'm sure you can do small (or big) things to support him or initially volunteer in an area you're more comfortable with.

Why not volunteer for the victims of crimes instead of for the perpetrators?

I imagine it's because most people would rather do just that.

I'd agree on a grand scale the primary focus should be there first but perpetrators are, in a way, victims as well. Even if you disagree (which is fair enough) they're still human beings.

Perpetrators are in a way victims like I am in a way a basketball superstar who never really reached his potential

Yes, because cause and effect isn't so clear. A child who got molested might end up traumatized and end up as a predator themselves. Or become a victim later in life once more because he/she attracts them.

The question is in the why. What happened that someone committed a crime? And was the crime that awful to begin with? Wozniak and Jobs did phone phreaking in the 70s. Didn't get busted, but only because the cop didn't recognize a blue box. Something simple such as cannabis isn't decriminalized in the USA yet, yet the prisons are full with cheap labour... I mean, prisoners who possessed or sold cannabis. In my country, guns are pretty much illegal, and cannabis is decriminalized. The amount of robberies and shootings on schools is near 0. The amount of people in jail due to cannabis is also near 0. Talk about creating basketball players out of nothing.

Somewhat misleading title, I think - the phrase "Get another chance at life" implied to me there was perhaps some clemency involved; that does not appear to be the case after reading the article.

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