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Comment by nathanaldensr | Hacker News Reader

I'm curious why this comment was down-voted. Is the assertion false? Have there been reports of UPS drivers doing this?

I downvoted because it's generally not productive to make context-light comments of the form, "There exists one grievance that one side has." It just encourages the outrage culture and further unproductive comments.

It's downvoted because the users of hackernews have an irrational hatred for unions, so anything that justifies having/forming a union is downvoted

No, I think it's downvoted because it's a made up story. It's easy to make up stories on the internet that invoke the feels, much harder to verify that they are true.

Stop trying to make this about "unions vs no unions."

Edit: No proof has been supplied this happened to an actual UPS employee, nor has there been any official statement by the union that this is actually something that has happened. Therefore, this is fake news until proven otherwise.

There's literally a comment on this thread where someone states that this actually happened. And a similar story, though involving bushes. Ergo, not made up.

If you don't believe the commentators here, why are you part of this community?

Because not all comments here are people making up stories / sharing anecdotes, and it's relatively easy for me to ignore them. I was merely answering GP's question about why it was being downvoted.

You must be browsing a different HN than I am. On my HN, there's a lot of support for unions, including voices advocating for software developers to unionize while we're still in position of power over employers.

I don't see that at all. It's very right wing economically and anti-labor.

I'm guessing most of HN is Engineers making loads of money who don't have to think about struggling in any sense when it's a reality that 78% of people in USA are living paycheck to paycheck.

Edit: I even see the HN anti-union comment flagged because again, HN is anti-union and anti-labor.

Again, we must be living in alternate universes, which somehow collided and started mixing in this HN thread. The HN in my universe has plenty of pro-labor and left-wing comments as well.

Or maybe it's a timezone thing? I'm in Europe, I tend to browse HN during our days and evenings. Maybe the threads visited by most Americans show up as I go to sleep, and disappear from the front page before I wake up?

Ehhh, I still see lots of irrational hatred for unions. There is starting to be more support for labor, but this is still primarily a startup forum, so capital is still idolized.

> It's downvoted because the users of hackernews have an irrational hatred for unions, so anything that justifies having/forming a union is downvoted

Of course, unions are a barrier to "disruption" and there's a lot of anti-union propaganda floating around, a lot based on selective examples of unions' worst behavior.

Personally, I think unions should be stronger, but maybe we need to experiment different models for unionization and employee organization.

It’s downvoted because it’s a classic story that always seems to come up whenever these kind of union articles appear.

Want to emphasize how bad workers have it? Just tell people they’re pissing in bottles!

The reality is no, workers aren’t pissing in bottles. At least not on a regular basis anyway, and not because they were forced. If they were, it means they’ve been drinking tons of water. But how would they have time to drink so much water if they supposedly don’t even have time to take a bathroom break?

Awareness of your own bodily functions is just a part of life. One that people take for granted, until it puts them in a difficult situation. There was once a time on my way to work I got stuck in a bad traffic jam and had to shit really bad. Eventually, there was a point where I realized I wasn’t going to make it and started rummaging through the backseat for any kind of bag.

> But how would they have time to drink so much water if they supposedly don’t even have time to take a bathroom break?

You can drink water and drive at the same time.

>But how would they have time to drink so much water if they supposedly don’t even have time to take a bathroom break?

What? Those are two distinct and not comparable things. Besides, being a driver can be pretty hefty labour and you'd be stupid not to be drinking lots of water while you work.

You can drink water while driving. Awareness of your bodily functions is a part of life and so is empathy and understanding that your employees will need bathroom breaks while working.

It's a classic story for UPS drivers because it's true, though it's actually more of a problem for FedEx drivers than UPS drivers.

And of course they're not pissing in bottles every day. The problem is that they don't have the time to take a rest break due to the unrealistic volumes of deliveries each driver is expected to make regardless of traffic, weather, or other conditions.

Exactly, the bottles are a clear and understandable symptom (literal, figurative, or somewhere inbetween) not the sickness they are trying to highlight.

The reality is no, workers aren’t pissing in bottles.

Fifteen seconds on Google turned up an unofficial forum for UPS workers. Pissing in bottles appears to be extremely common. From perusing a few threads on the topic, the zeitgeist appeared to be "everyone does it, but if you leave your piss bottles in the truck after your shift then you're an asshole".

https://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/what-do-you-do-w...

https://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/urine-bottles-in...

https://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/urine-bottles-le...

https://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/urine-bottles.36...

Perhaps they feel an undue pressure to do something like this. There are some people in these threads that definitely find it out of the norm. [0] It very well could be people who simply don't stand up for themselves particularly well. I find it really difficult to believe that they lack the time/ability to use a gas station bathroom. Some routes may not have public restrooms, but I'd be willing to bet these are few and far between. They would most likely be rural routes, where you could get some privacy much more easily anyway.

It is also possible people actually prefer to do this rather than stopping frequently and dealing with the hassle of finding a place, parking, running the risk of it being a single restroom and already being occupied.

[0] https://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/what-do-you-do-w...

I'm not sure if you've ever done physical labour, but you need to keep yourself hydrated over an 8 hour shift. Especially if you're working in 90 degree weather.

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