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Comment by sdesol | Hacker News Reader

It's 100% related, but I would also not read too much into the numbers. There will always be a small minority that hates Microsoft like no tomorrow and this is very much reflected on reddit (https://reddit.com/r/programming) right now.

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If you trust Microsoft at all you don't remember the 90's at all. OTOH I'm happy that MS is doing well recently because competition is good for all of us, but there is nothing more terrifying to me than MS becoming even close to as powerful as it used to be.

People change. Companies change.

I am reminded of the Ship of Theseus[0]. What percentage of people employed at Microsoft in the 1990s now remain some 20-30 years later? At what point is the company considered changed?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

I would say companies change more than people change. Companies are made of people, but generally not the same people decades later, which allows for quite a bit of change.

Now if I could only get myself to believe this about Uber... Then again, it hasn't really been all that long.

Those of us who remember the '90s, know the Embrace when they see it. Github has already begun to Extend, with issues, web pages, wikis, and all the social networking stuff. This acquisition brings MS directly to the doorstep of Stage Three. I'd give them a year or two to set the hook before they make their move.

That hasn't been a thing in a long ass time

Let's both hope that you're right. This move gives me the creeps.

Nowadays they do seem more content with absolutely destroying the usability of every product they own. Except visual studio code, but then they have always tried to appeal to developers through their tools. They just forgot about it for a bot.

I’m wondering if it’s a generational thing to some extent.

I’m very wary of Microsoft because their bad behaviour was front and center while I was learning about computers. I remember the lawsuits and the backhanders and the FUD and the Embrace, Extend, Extinguish philosophy.

But modern Microsoft is better behaved to some extent. There are still lots of concerns, but I could easily imagine that someone a little younger than me might have missed the controversy and think of Microsoft in much the same way others might think of Apple or Google.

In some ways, they're worse than they were. Like releasing versions of Windows locked down to their app store.

I trust Microsoft more than I trust Google these days. I don't remember when that transition happened in my mind, but Microsoft has been actively working at being better, while it seems Google has been actively working at being worse.

As far as I can tell they have actively been working at looking better to developers, at the same time they have had to be essentially forced by public opinion to not silently, and by default send your entire life to their server because you used their OS.

I know Google does many similar things, and it's as bad, and they probably getting worse. But Microsoft didn't use to do that, they did a lot of suspect things, but not that. So they are also getting worse.

They have always tried to woo developers, haven't always succeded, but it's in their DNA. So if that has stayed there all these years, what else have?

Do you feel the same about IBM?

> nothing more terrifying to me than MS becoming even close to as powerful as it used to be

I've written about this in length in the past, but Git ensures Microsoft cannot be as "evil" as you may think they can be/become. In the past Perforce, Microsoft, IBM, etc. were able to control the software development lifecycle, since they "controlled the spice" (watch Dune if you are confused). But with Git, everything has changed, and that's because Microsoft can't dictate Git's direction. In fact, Git forced Microsoft to change its way with TFS.

Microsoft acquiring GitHub can certainly be scary, but I think this is more so for GitLab, Bitbucket, and other Git hosting solutions. If Microsoft decides to treat GitHub as a loss leader, this can have a devastating affect on GitLab and Bitbucket. If Microsoft announces that private repos on GitHub are now free, I can see developers migrating from GitLab and Bitbucket to GitHub.

I posted this in another thread, but I can see Microsoft making GitHub free, so they can:

- capture developer data for ML/AI research

- identify new product ideas

- identify ways to improve existing products

- funnel developers to existing MS products

I've been in the developer tools space for quite some time and what I've noticed, is developers are not loyal. More often than not, they will pick a solution based on productivity and cost, instead of ideology. And if Microsoft can remove the cost variable, this can be very scary for GitLab and Bitbucket. This can also be very good for developers as well, since GitLab and Bitbucket will be forced to focus on innovation, which benefits all.

I’m really sick of hearing abou “oh the 90s Microsoft” you know what’s far scarier right now? Google, Facebook, the American Government. But you’re more worried about what some people did a ~20 years ago.

Absolutely. Microsoft today is not Microsoft of old.

Maybe not, but they won't get my money anyway, not yet. Companies rarely change, how they want to be perceived, how they present themselves does change.

The last time they did some more extend/extinguish on Skype was earlier this year.

Microsoft is doing a lot of good things, and while they are doing fewer bad things they have definitely not stopped.

> The last time they did some more extend/extinguish on Skype was earlier this year.

They haven't extended/extinguished Skype at all.

They made the UI / Experience worse, for sure, but that has NOTHING to do with 'extend & extinguish'.

Reddit link missing a 'r/'

Thanks, updated!

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