Ask HN: What is the perception of an ex-Amazon engineer today? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: What is the perception of an ex-Amazon engineer today?

15 pointssadamznintern50 comments

I'm joining Amazon in a few weeks in Seattle. Since I first accepted my intern offer, I've come to see the perception that Amazon engineers are less sought-after and seen to be worse than engineers at Facebook or Google - is this perception accurate? What is the hierarchy?

I know for a fact that Amazon engineers are compensated less well compared to Facebook and Google - does having Amazon as an SDE1 on my resume imply I didn't have any better options? I turned down two startups and a bulge-bracket bank (Goldman | JP Morgan | Morgan Stanley) to accept Amazon.

I want to go to Google or Facebook someday, but I'm afraid I don't have the mental acuity to pass an interview loop.

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I want to go to Google or Facebook

Please, please, PLEASE stop thinking that way. It's absurd. I mean, I'm not saying don't go to Google or Facebook one day... but please quit thinking that working for one of those TWO companies is somehow the be-all, end-all. They're just companies. And frankly, they both suck. And I can say that having worked for neither of them. Why? Because all companies suck, in their own ways. Thinking that there's this one place that's just somehow so special and that's going to make you happy, especially when you've already narrowed the pool down to two is almost guaranteed to be a mistake.

The world is a LOT bigger than AmaGoodBookSoftHooGram. I mean, really, really, really, really MUCH bigger. Almost unimaginably so. Please don't constrain yourself in such an artificial way. Just focus on developing your skills, learning as much as you can, and figuring out what you want to focus on. If you can nail that part, the name of the company you work for is almost completely incidental.

The world out there pays HALF. Not everybody who works at Amazon is in their first job. Many people have worked in those other places and dealt with the personalities, the low pay, the excuses. Sooner or later people realize, "ok If I have to deal with this shit boss, shit business, shit industry at least I am going to get paid as well as possible."

The world out there pays HALF.

Sometimes, yeah. Not always.

"ok If I have to deal with this shit boss, shit business, shit industry at least I am going to get paid as well as possible."

Conversely, some people realize "Money isn't everything and I can find a job that is fulfilling and meets my needs without working for $SPECIFIC_COMPANY".

Never mind that, in the case of Google or Facebook in particular, that higher pay generally comes with a MUCH higher cost of living if you work in their "main" geographic area. You have to factor that in when figuring out what your real "disposable income" is going to be.

Anyway, again, I'm not saying "don't work for Google, Facebook, etc." I'd just caution anybody not to get too caught up in the hype of thinking that some (VERY) small handful of all the companies in the entire world, are automatically "the" place to work. I'm implore everyone to "Do your own evaluation and weigh everything on its merits and then decide."

>Never mind that, in the case of Google or Facebook in particular, that higher pay generally comes with a MUCH higher cost of living if you work in their "main" geographic area. You have to factor that in when figuring out what your real "disposable income" is going to be.

This is fake news.

You end up with more disposable income no matter how you slice or dice it. I grew up about where you live and went to your community college before I went to undergrad.

So I didn't realize until just now that you were literally talking about contemplating suicidal thoughts relative to your job situation. That's outside of my wheelhouse, so let me join the chorus of people saying "talk to a professional" (doctor, therapist, etc).

> You have to factor that in when figuring out what your real "disposable income" is going to be

People do.

They still pay better.

Quit assuming everyone but you is a complete moron who can't do basic math. Yes, that is exactly what you are doing every time you bring this up.

Thank you. This nonsense has been everywhere and it makes me very confused. Why would smart people from MIT/Stanford work at Google if it makes less money than working at IBM in a random suburb?

You'll have a higher CoL than living in Ohio, but you also won't live in Ohio. You can also work at either in NYC, easily afford living close enough for a walking commute, still come out ahead, and still not be in Ohio.

Okay, who pays as well?

Only the hedge funds/propshops/hft companies and some of the startups that have already exited like Cruise.

Nobody else does, that guy just has low standards and has been brainwashed into thinking the elites don't live significantly more fulfilling and secure lives than he does.

Most people reporting to me make >$200k total comp, some by quite a lot. I see no evidence that they're happier than my high school classmates. The highest earner quite certainly wasn't the happiest. Somewhere, there's an eighteen-year-old doing affiliate marketing (maybe ICOs now?) who outearns all of us, with less than zero institutional prestige.

It's a big world. Money is excellent, but it's (a) less effective in buying happiness than you think, and (b) found in more places than you think. Seriously, talk to a therapist--these thoughts are hurting both your mental health and your earning potential.

>Money is excellent, but it's (a) less effective in buying happiness than you think

To me, money is how I want to live without fear. I grew up pretty upper middle class but my parents were petrified of the littlest things (putting up the thermostat at 80 instead of 85, staying at a non-terrifying $80 a night motel instead of a terrifying $65 a night one).

We're pretty secure but everyone I knew grew up more "confidently" and now makes more than me.

Certainly, the hyper-elites live more secure lives, but fulfilling? Theres a whole line of research showing that beyond a certain point (different studies find different points over time, but generally somewhere in the upper middle class income range of elite workers), additional income is not correlated with further increases in measures of satisfaction, fulfillment, etc.

Maybe nobody. And if your goal in life is nothing but "maximize my salary" then sure, pursue those companies are any cost. I personally don't see that as the best route to happiness, but hey, "different strokes" and all that.

I guess I'm also biased to care less about salary, because there is - realistically - no company that is going to pay me a salary that will let me achieve the most extravagant of my dreams. The only route to the level of wealth is to found a startup, maintain a large chunk of equity in same, and have an exit event.

If the greatest accomplishment on your resume is that Amazon once hired you, then you have a problem that changing "Amazon" to "Facebook" won't fix. What you accomplish and learn is more important than where.

In any case, the variation between groups in large companies is bigger than the variation between companies. Choose based on the interview experience, publications from the group (if any), feedback from friends working directly for/with the hiring manger (if at all possible), etc.

It sadly absolutely is. I didn't really do much as an intern. My research contributions are pretty low impact too, I got only 1 2nd author paper in undergrad to a mid tier conference.

Nothing I've made has gotten more than 30k downloads/installs, nothing has made it to the top of HN, I haven't been a rockstar at any of the companies I've worked for...

Even if what you're saying is true--which I doubt, if only because "got hired by Amazon/Facebook/anywhere once" is an incredibly weak greatest achievement--it's not normal to think about yourself in such negative light. Seriously, talk to a therapist.

You need to (a) make sure you're not feeling so depressed/inferior that your judgment is impaired, and (b) find the work that you're personally capable of that you personally find most impressive, and go somewhere that you can do it. To chase external affirmation that you don't think you deserve is a terrible strategy for your mental health, and probably not a great financial strategy either.

Any developer can get an interview at google or FB as long as you have a CS degree. It’s 2018 and their goal is to interview EVERYONE. No more pick and chose. Who ever cracks their stupid and useless “technical” interviews has the “ability” to work for them. Your past experiences or real skills don’t matter at all. Or I shoud say - won’t help you during the interview process because it’s a tough exam. Bill Gates could fail, zuckerberg could fail as well as Sergey or Larry. Which also means, anyone can succeed the interview process.

If that’s what you want, my suggestion would be to memorize as many algo/solutions as possible and to spend 3 months writting complex functions on a whiteboard. Be prepared to fail the interview process at least once. Many FB/Google employees failed at least once before getting a job their.

Amazon? That’s good for you.. go for it and learn as much as you can for your next gig. Don’t forget to separate the interview process from the real work experience. These are 2 different things and in 2018 you better master both. One will get you a job and the other one will help you keep that job.

I've studied for 4 years. I've only become marginally better. I still can't understand a lot of the hards and mediums.

Then study for 4 more years.

Qualify what "studied for 4 years" means. No one can really study for 4 years, just like no one can really study for 8 hours :). For what it's worth, I have found good success by picking a topic on leetcode and then solving some easies, then going to a medium.

About 210 questions on leetcode, 45% med, 45% easy, 10% hard.

I repeated doing a bunch of them because I'd forget tricks and the like. I think I just don't have the IQ for it.

To compare, most of the people that I know who cracked FB, Google, trading companies etc did less than 80 or just read CTCI. I read CTCI and didn't find it helpful at all.

Do not live a life of regret. Have experiences. Maybe, having an Amazon experience is a good thing? How about (for instance) if it turned out the big data science being done inside Amazon took you to JPL or Antarctica or into your own startup?

I tell a joke about failing to get hired by Microsoft in the 1980s. Sure, I'd be fully vested, but I've worked continuously since graduating.

In a million years we're all fossils. Life is too short to waste in coulda-shoulda-woulda

Take your experience and look for jobs doing what makes you happy. School is over, you don’t have to do stuff to please other people anymore. Don’t take a job to impress your friends, belong to a “club” or make your parents happy.

Want to work on technology X? Look for jobs doing that. If you get a job at Google, do you know what you’ll be working on? I’ve heard they assign you to whatever google wants you to work on. Sure, you can move to another group someday but as I once told an interviewer: “Why should I pay my dues working on something uninteresting in hopes that I can someday move to another dept doing what I want to do, when I can just work for someplace else, working on something I want to do right now?

Whatever you believe is right. Amazon is what you make of it just like everything else. With such low spirits ahead of your start date I suggest you defer it further, we expect enthusiasm at Amazon,you will be rewarded handsomely in a couple years. But that first impression has got to be one of a winner , a go getter. YOU cleared the hiring bar , why do you look back? Who cares if it is lower than Facebook or Google , are you trying to tell me that is the ceiling of an Amazonians potential. We want everyone to feel great working at Amazon , and you are no exception . Nobody will tell you to buck up at Amazon , you will just stop being relevant and quit one day if you don't have the fire in you from day one.

It absolutely is what I make of it. I got the team that I wanted in the city I've wanted to live in since I was a kid. I want to make the most of it personally but I have doubts I'll get much out of it even with that. I'm really afraid of getting PIPed within the first review cycle. My stock isn't going to appreciate much either and my TC is very low compared to my peers.

Why, oh why, are you starting out so defeated?!

I'm not sure the origin of the quote... "If you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right."

You're shooting yourself in the foot before you even start!!! STOP it!

Just go in and apply what you know, learn where you don't, and work hard. It's going to be hard, but it'll be worth it.

I would also agree with the tone of the rest of the comments. You could work in the best company doing the shittiest work and working in the shittiest company doing the best work. At the end of the day - Take a chance. Make mistake. Learn. Keep repeating.

I know two people that worked at Amazon as software engineers. They worked in very different groups, one very business integration focused, the other one worked in the core Amazon site. Both are extremely professional, intelligent, and capable and I would be happy to work with either again. I think you have a better chance at Amazon of developing strong professional skills that are better suited to a larger number of employers, than you would at Google or FB (but I could be wrong.) Keep in mind technical groups within a large organization can be very different from each other so you should use every opportunity to meet/network across groups.

Thank you for an actual response. That's heartening, but I'm still not sure if Amazon and Google are held in equal footing :(

Comparing yourself to others is going to make you nuts. Stop it. Seriously.

Why not be THANKFUL you've got a job?

If you start with what you've got now, work to learn as much as you can while you're there, it will go a long way for you going forward.

I am thankful. But everyone gets a job out of undergrad with a CS degree. I think I'm one of the ~10 people in my 300 person CS program that got a job at a big tech company making more than $100k a year. That's not good enough. I'm not competing with them, I'm competing with people that went to HYPSM.

You don't sound thankful. You sound entitled.

Have you considered that even though you may consider FB or Google a better place to work, for status/pay... that you're already starting out INSANELY better with even Amazon, than the rest of the world gets?

You can make this experience as good or as poor as you like. It's completely up to you. I say to make the best of it.

For some perspective... I don't have a CS degree. I was a Business Major. I am now self-employed and going through common self-employment struggles. I'd venture a guess and say that you probably know more than I do about tech and programming... but I am making it. No HYPSM here. No Big5 tech companies on my resume.

Are you from (i.e. born/raised) the Bay Area by chance?

Nope. Born in the South.

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