San Francisco to Uber, Lyft: If your drivers aren’t employees, prove it
arstechnica.com
arstechnica.com
Currently, Uber EULA only allows them to lower prices. Without their freedom to negotiate prices as they see fit, IMO drivers can’t be qualified as private contractors.
The value added by these platforms is exactly that, you don't need to negotiate with individual drivers to get a fare to your destination.
Why do you expect that’s going to be hard to implement? Actual private contractors (myself included) do that all the time.
One straightforward method, a rider posts location + destination + price of the ride, accepts/declines offers from drivers based on price, vehicle model, reputation, personal preferences, etc.
Another straightforward method, a passenger posts his location + destination, drivers offer price, a passenger accepts an offer.
> The value added by these platforms is exactly that
Not “exactly that”, that’s just one part of it. Examples of e-bay or stock markets shows that an intermediary connecting buyers with sellers, processing payments, maintaining reputation of both parties, and solving disputes, can still add huge value.
> you don't need to negotiate with individual drivers to get a fare to your destination
With sufficient support from the service, the negotiation part can probably be streamlined to only take a couple of clicks/swipes. Like preference to filter drivers/riders by price or distance, ability to save routes or destinations with price information allowing for 1-click repeated orders, other convenience features.
It’s technically possible, and not that hard, to implement a voice-based interface for that, using e.g. Bluetooth + car stereo.
You setup your preferences while the vehicle is not moving to filter the offers you want to receive, by criteria like price/km, geography, min. total price. Then the software uses voice interface to read you the incoming offers, and listens to your “accept/decline” voice commands.
I used to do a bit of contracting and I always set a price with my clients as part of the contract. That didn’t make me their employee. And didn’t make my employees and contractors my client’s employees.
Market is not a third party like Uber. Market is a collective name for the body of the dealing parties. Specifically, prices on eBay are set by sellers for fixed price offers, and by buyers for auctions.
> I used to do a bit of contracting and I always set a price with my clients as part of the contract. That didn’t make me their employee.
Exactly. But if someone else would set your price with your clients, and your only options would be to agree to the price or quit the job, I would probably say you’re an employee, and that third party who set your prices is your employer or manager.
-This is actually precisely how about a third of my contracts worked. And reviews by my firm’s lawyers+theirs made sure it was legit.
There’s a bunch of case law on this and tons of companies with this as their business mode (eg, FedEx). It will be interesting to see how this settles out though. I know FedEx has been through a lot of lawsuits and Microsoft famously lost and had a bunch of contractors reclassified as employees.
Basically boils down to behavioral, financial, and relationship factors. And you can tell that Uber and Lyft designed their business around this pretty carefully.
I don’t see any google results about people having ss8s determined as employees so that likely says something.
[0] https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe... [1] https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fss8.pdf
What? Just because it's "valued" that way (that is, someone thinks it's worth that much) doesn't mean the entity has money in the bank or that such a change wouldn't negatively affect the companies inflow/outflow.
Not that I support Uber or Lyft (I'm best described as ambivalent), or really have the facts for myself, but this was just so illogical I wonder how this guy can be the city's attorney.
Of course there’s always the possibility that they’ll be able to ride things out until autonomous fleets are real, but today’s combination of ride prices with tomorrow’s increased compensation for drivers won’t be sustainable for long.
That said, I’ve been participating in a beta of another TNC that uses bonafide employees as drivers. The most interesting thing to me in that service is how much less scarily aggressive the drivers are. It’s almost as if paying them a wage makes them less stressed...
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understanding-employee-vs-contr...