California Eyes Data Privacy Measure
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It's not hard if you don't base your businesses doing what many people consider creepy.
Maybe they should have thought of that before doing so.
It's not like we don't know that they don't know but if they did know they would not like it, and we know that too.
Creepy: doing something to someone that you know they would not like if they knew about it but doing it anyway.
What the tech industry et. al. is doing is deeply creepy and the only reason we're not up against the wall is that people haven't quite understood yet what's going on. It's so egregious that people are incredulous, but as they start to get a clue it will eventually be pitchforks and torches time. (Ahem, GDPR...)
[1] - https://consumerist.com/2012/02/17/target-figures-out-teen-g...
EDIT: looks like this is because I'm logged into my own Wordpress blog. Weird that that should have any bearing on my ability to load this blog.
Businesses just starting out have an easier time knowing which lines not to cross in their business models than those who began their journies sometimes over a decade ago.
Another example, you don't have to buy an Amazon Echo or Google Assistant. If you find cloud connected microphones in your home creepy, don't do it. Why is that not sufficient? Or do the people who are creeped out want to make the choice for other people and remove products from the market they'd like to use?
Sure, but it is increasingly the case that by doing so you are excluded from normal daily activities, because in some cases these technologies are now how our society communicates.
For example, you can no longer park legally in many UK streets or public car parks without using a smartphone app, which means working with Apple or Google (Android) technology for the device, and working with a mobile network operator for the data connection. In theory, you can usually call or text from a feature phone instead, which means you only have to deal with the mobile network, but typically those facilities are among the worst user experience you will ever encounter, and taking upwards of 15 minutes to make a simple payment is not unusual, if you can even pay successfully at all. You no longer have any option to pay quickly, reliably and anonymously in cash the way we used to.
Honestly not sure if you're joking here... The government in my country has a somewhat well-established payment mechanism, which relies on small metallic or paper-plastic tokens to represent value, and that is what we used to pay for parking until these new-fangled things came along.
If you tell me to give up credit cards or mobile payments, I won't. I'd rather credit cards and mobile payments be made secure and private, but in the worse case, I'll trade convenience for marginal loss of privacy, since in decades of walking this earth, I've yet to have been harmed by it.
I'd be more concerned if I lived in a country with a more fascist authoritarian government, but the cost/benefit tradeoff for me, personally, it well worth it. Other people have the choice of not doing so, they just have to suffer the irritation of cash and loss of convenience.
I think the degree to which your business model is future proof in the face of changing preferences of consumers should be on the mind on entrepreneurs, and if it isn't I think it's a good thing that new companies will eventually supplant them.
Not different at all from companies that had their eye on increasing environmental standards and planned accordingly.
An example is Facebook's reaction to racial profiling in the real estate and renters market. In my opinion, they handled that as well as could be reasonably expected.
People don't even read the ToS (term of service). I'm pessimistic that they would even do this.
The full text of the proposal is here: https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/initiatives/pdfs/17-0039%20%...
> A. Giving California consumers the right to know what categories of personal information a business has collected about them and their children.
> B. Giving California consumers the right to know whether a business has sold this personal information, or disclosed it for a business purpose, and to whom.
> C. Requiring a business to disclose to a California consumer if it sells any of the consumer's personal information and allowing a consumer to tell the business to stop selling the consumer's personal information.
> D. Preventing a business from denying, changing, or charging more for a service if a California consumer requests information about the business's collection or sale of the consumer's personal information, or refuses to allow the business to sell the consumer's personal information.
> E. Requiring businesses to safeguard California consumers' personal information and holding them accountable if such information is compromised as a result ofa security breach arising from the business's failure to take reasonable steps to protect the security of consumers' sensitive information.
I don't think the sky is going to fall if this gets passed.
Past that, it's also surprising that a lot of this is about selling data, but what about using it internally? It seems like Facebook and Google don't want to sell your data as they consider it their proprietary asset.
The businesses can survive and do well without needing to know every habit of everyone and target ads based on knowing everyone's predilections and peccadilloes. Sure it would be more like classical Newspaper ads and broadcast TV ads; which, while they worked, are acknowledged not to be as effective, but still effective enough to support the ad and consumerist economies.
It's probably not to late to return to that business model, if people demand it enough and legislators don't cave-in to business demand.
In the olden days it was normal and legal to own people. Then (most) societies "decided" that they are not comfortable with the idea anymore and the norms and laws changed.
Philosophically, some of these regulations run afoul negative rights. When you interact with other people, or any entity, they will retain a memory of it. A lot of this data collection used to exist, but was informal, on pen and paper, or simply retained by the mind of the local establishments as their customers were locals. Saying that you own information that is by nature joint information like an entangled particle, and that another party must erase it, may be a pragmatic and utilitarian policy to deal with the increasing probability of bad actors (State or otherwise) misusing information, but the philosophy behind it rubs me the wrong way.
Let's say a run a video arcade, and I keep track of which games everyone plays when they come in through the door. Though I hold no PII on the people, through some mechanism I can assign them a unique ID and recognize them on return (e.g. token card). Why should this joint information: what entities playing my arcade cabinets, be exclusively owned by you, especially if I'm not even providing the games for free?
I'm asking this as a philosophical question, what's the moral justification that one side of a two sided exchange retains exclusivity to information? (and by exclusivity, I mean your right to ask me to delete it)
In this context, the slavery example wasn't a good one as it is so charged with exactly that. Perhaps drug prohibition laws are a better example in general and Alcohol prohibition in the US in particular: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighteenth_Amendment_to_the_Un...
With this in mind there is no need for moral justification that one side of a two sided exchange retains exclusivity to information (and given the way personal data is used and abused, I think that there is such justification) , only sufficient public opinion that this is how things should be.
However someone's possession of data about you may indeed diminish other rights you hold and/or may be used to gain advantage at your expense. This is why we talk about data getting "into the wrong hands". I may not care for my employer to know about my sexual proclivities. I may not care for insurers to know my search history and draw (possibly incorrect) inferences from it.
The argument regarding privacy isn't about the potential that others' knowledge of your info diminishes the utility of the data to you (in most cases there is no _personal_ utility). It's about the power to restrict who can use that information as leverage in the advancement of their interests, often to the detriment of your own. It's about preserving agency.
> "Without any sort of process ... the proponents came up with this law," Callahan says. "[Mactaggart is] suggesting [this] should be the law of the land without any sort of public vetting or scrutiny and we think that's irresponsible and dangerous."
Isn't the ballot initiative process the "public vetting or scrutiny" this guy is talking about? Seems like he's unhappy his group didn't get a chance to water down or kill the measure behind the scenes.
That's not to say that there's no place for the initiative process, but it's not without its problems.
The CA implementation seems terrible, but in general direct democracies end up with better laws, and the populace in such democracies ends up being better than a bunch of self selected politicians (who happen to not be experts anyway). US and UK lawmaking processes are a perfect example of why you need to give citizens more control (but you still want legislative bodies to do the grunt work).
Is there something that indicates that?
Do you write code by chance? Ever introduce a bug or unintended consequence? I bet 10-1 it was logic problem, not a compiler problem.
The hard part of writing laws is in exactly and completely defining your terms. It has nothing to do with the legal system, and more to do with the nature of language itself.
Gödel's 'incompleteness theorems' comes to mind.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2010/10/googl...
I'm not a legal expert or legislative one but I do think there is good reason for public vetting as in a ballot initiative, and other things that require a bit more / or different type of vetting, such as something that goes through a legislature and maybe has the input of some folks who pay attention for longer than a tv advert.
This is the same electorate that banned gay marriage (prop 8) and caused the worst housing crisis in decades (prop 13). Even if his opinion is wrong, his criticism of the the process is spot on.
"(b) "Business" means: (1) a sole-proprietorship, partnership, limited-liability company, corporation, association, or other legal entity that is organized or operated for the profit or financial benefit of its shareholders or other owners, that collects consumers' personal information, that does business in the State of California, and that satisfies one or more of the following thresholds: (A) has annual gross revenues in excess of $50,000,000, as adjusted pursuant to paragraph (5) of subdivision (a) of section 1798.115; or (B) annually sells, alone or in combination, the personal information of 100,000 or more consumers or devices; or (C) derives 50 percent or more of its annual revenues from selling consumers' personal information; ..."
And the definition of "selling" is also clearly defined.
" (q)(l) "Sell," "selling," "sale," or "sold," means: (A) selling, renting, releasing, disclosing, disseminating, making available, transferring, or otherwise communicating orally, in writing, or by electronic or other means, a consumer's personal information by the business to a third party for valuable consideration; or (B) sharing orally, in writing, or by electronic or other means, a consumer's personal information with a third party, whether for valuable consideration or for no consideration, for the third party's commercial purposes."
[https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/initiatives/pdfs/17-0039%20%...]
The Facebook Pixel is definitely disclosing data to Facebook, even if they aren’t being paid for it. And they probably use data from the Facebook Pixel across many advertisers for Facebook’s own business purposes.
Edit: to be clear, the Facebook Pixel is basically fine under this law so long as Facebook only uses the data for facilitating ads for the company the data was collected from in the first place.
sounds like it would hurt equifax. that’s worth way more than google, which only gives access to demographic data and doesn’t directly share it.
Because I suspect that is what GDPR advocates truly want.
Before GDPR there was virtually no downside for gathering private information. There was no downside for using that information to profile customers for any purpose you want. Now there is a downside: you have to tell the customer what you are doing with the data and you have to get permission to do so if the use is not related to the service that you are providing to the customer.
IMHO this strikes a good balance. You can still use the data, but there is a cost. Even within the organisation where I work, it has completely changed the way they look at this data. Previously the attitude was, "Let's collect the data and use it, because why not?" Now we're being told, "These are the only things we want to collect data on because we don't want to piss off our customers".
This is exactly what I want. I have in the past used Facebook's services. I currently use Google's services. I don't mind if their business model is destroyed because IMHO, on balance this way is better. I don't mind if people will have to pay for services like theirs. I'm old enough to remember a time where it was already like that -- it's really not so bad. Having thought about it (by way of being required to implement GDPR), I'm going to move to move away from the Google's et al. Having seen the transition in the company I work for, it's clear to me how much better it is.
They aren't actually selling your data... Maybe if you decide to change the definition of the word "selling" they are selling your data.
What are you seeing? I didn't see any consent popups on Firefox or Chrome (even with uBlock & NoScript disabled).
It's full page, not a popup or modal. Text:
By choosing “I agree” below, you agree that NPR’s sites use cookies, similar tracking and storage technologies, and information about the device you use to access our sites to enhance your viewing, listening and user experience, personalize content, personalize messages from NPR’s sponsors, provide social media features, and analyze NPR’s traffic. This information is shared with social media services, sponsorship, analytics and other third-party service providers.
Options:
- Agree and continue
- Decline and visit plain text site
Decline takes you to the homepage, which is literally plain text. Apparently it was too hard for them to provide some css. You have to search around for the content you were going to, ultimately ending up at this plain text page: https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=614419275
Apart from that, I've found no way of getting text-only links to articles that don't happen to be linked from the frontpage.
Something similar is what led me to write my essay on ad tracking and Google that tried to trace it back to Larry and Sergey:
http://yuhongbao.blogspot.ca/2018/04/google-doubleclick-mozi...
Also see:
https://twitter.com/berendjanwever/status/775366191078641664
Also I feel like the general essay format that is taught to you in grade school is actually a bad format. Grade school project style reports are usually easier to read and easier to write.
Essays contorts most people's writing into a very awkward form. If people were allowed write without the restrictions of essays, they would usually be more clear.
Better yet, try the typical medium or journalistic article format to get better reading comprehension.
This would likely help make it a bit more readable for very little effort, though a grammar and spell checker and shrinking some paragraphs would help as well.
I’m a practicalist.
It would be better to just have a consumer watchdog that had the power to ask companies to change anti-consumer practices and use a jury to determine if something is anti-consumer (like dark patterns).
I have some experience running online subscriptions, and my policy has always been that you can unsubscribe straightforwardly. Typically it takes a couple of clicks clicks, one to start and one to confirm, and the whole process is immediate and fully automated. In some cases, maybe there's also a brief and optional exit survey, but never anything deceptive or that significantly obstructs someone who wants to cancel. Like not using some conversion optimisation techniques that cross a line into invading privacy, I just see this as treating our customers how we'd like to be treated ourselves.
Many people have used these facilities with no trouble and those services have generally received few complaints, but you do still get the special people who instead of taking ten seconds to do that would rather send a page-long email about how they demand that we cancel their subscription right now and if we charge them again they'll dispute it, and they'll literally send that email 5 minutes before their next renewal fee goes through.
When you're dealing with that kind of person, you want it to be stated very clearly and in writing that their subscription continues until cancelled in the proper way, that merely emailing is not sufficient to cancel and may not take effect immediately even if we do honour the request, etc. Of course, that doesn't stop us from being friendly and helpful if someone sends a polite cancellation request by email, even though it's an irritating waste of time to deal with those requests manually, but you can't be too casual about cancellations or, sadly, some people will exploit that.
What if you've agreed to a contract and want to exit early and there are fees?
What if the company wants to offer an incentive for you to keep your subscription?
Should all those things be illegal?
*Edit: under the proposed law, websites like this wouldn't actually be required to post the 'Do not Sell' link
I was concerned that every blog and startup might need to implement the functionality, but it seems like that might not be the case.
Maybe some deletion right too but the above is the part commonly found in other privacy laws, such as in Canada where I now live.
None of this depends on whether they share your data, let alone share in exchange for compensation.
A link to a static page "we don't collect user data" is now "functionality"?
Ugh but why though? Why not just have a law that says you cannot sell or trade personal information.
The only work the site owners needs to do is to have a list of all the companies they sell the data too, show that list to you, and save your acceptance in a cookie.
For more complex apps like Facebook that sell more data or mine your private messages/emails,purchases, music and movies you watch they should also display the exact thing they sell or share for free.
My point, the companies would have just to inform, would not be forced to give you access.
The way it was implemented was "This site uses cookies to store your preferences and it can't work without this essential technology".
I suggested this because I see some people here don't want to stop selling the data, at least have this selling transparent to the user. Maybe we get the ad blockers, containers in browser and other related technology adoption rise faster(it won't solve all the problems but would stop tracking at least)
> "This site uses cookies to store your preferences and it can't work without this essential technology".
... then you didn't need to display anything at all. You only needed a cookie warning if you were doing tracking and other data collection that was not a technical requirement of the site (and "supporting the business model of selling user data" is not a technical requirement of a site).
Alas, the law was broken enough that everyone could get away with defaulting to show a vague "this site uses cookies for your own good" message.
Where it applies, GDPR doesn't disallow selling data. It just ensures the user explicitly opts into that scheme. That creates extra burden for those who don't mind their data being resold, but that's like a small percentage of users. The ones who desperately don't want to be tracked are another small percentage. The vast majority of users are people who don't know any better and don't even understand the topic, so they will go along with whatever is presented.
I'm NOT ok with companies selling my information.
I might be ok with companies selling derivatives or analysis of group information.
Also, opting out won't actually prevent any of the big data abuses people are actually concerned about...
Google and Facebook already launched their lobbyists there and are trying to undermine it, I wonder what they will do to Japan.