Student makes history with human-powered ‘flapping-wing’ plane | Hacker News Reader

Student makes history with human-powered ‘flapping-wing’ plane

thestar.com

93 pointsfaramarz28 comments

Went to school with Todd - he was one of those people who always seemed to have the energy and the dedication to be involved in every extracurricular activity out there, while getting top grades in arguably Canada's most challenging engineering program, and being an incredibly nice guy to boot.

Not surprised to see his name in the news :)

This is pretty amazing! watch the video here http://www.vimeo.com/15168317

The wings really are flapping like a bird!

The wing movement looks so natural, its even beautiful.

Do any aeronautical engineers know if it's getting any benefit from ground effect at that altitude?

I'm not an aeronautic engineer, but I used to be a pilot. I would say yes, he's getting increased lift by being that close to the ground.

My sources include dusty memories and Wikipedia, so... grains of salt all around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_in_aircraft

IIRC as long as it's half the wingspan from the surface yes

I suppose my question here is such: Does the flapping actually generate enough lift to both sustain and initiate flight? We've had gliders that can stay afloat for ages with the right thermals, but they (like we see in this video as well) require something powered to get them started. It's beautiful, yes, but from what I can see in the video it looks like it's almost entirely aesthetics.

I'll quote a comment made on the article

  "There is a minimum requirement for flight which
 it met. That involves maintaining altitude and
 speed over a certain period of time, whereas in
 a glide you either lose speed to maintain altitude
 until stall or lose altitude to maintain speed until ground.
 The flyer maintained and even appeared to gain 
 altitude after the pull cord was released from the car
 and maintained speed throughout the flight. If you are
 wondering how I get this from the video, it's because
 I am familiar with the researchers who did this."

A good glider can easily do dozens of meters while losing only one meter in height(I flew one), so it is impossible to tell from the shaky video. But if he knows those guys and tells the truth, awesome!

It looks beautiful anyway though.

Sustaining, maybe; initiating, never.

If you own one of those X-twin foam planes, try mounting wheels on them. They only take of from tables and such, not form the ground.

If you look closely, I think the 'initiate flight' in this case happens via a tow from a car.

Human powered planes already exist, using propellers.

No idea why anyone would have downvoted you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp7yv67B5Sc

Probably because I was too lazy to post a video, thanks :)

I'd like to see multiple humans powering a gyrocopter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY8SmllLcIU

Not to downplay the importance of what they've done, but that video shows a plane gliding, accelerated by a car.

Wouldn't they need to show lift via the flapping of wings to show that it isn't a glider with wings that flap, but rather the flapping of wings is actually creating lift?

Cabin has wheels under it. I think in an ideal environment, for example a runway, he could have created lift by just flapping the wings with enough speed over a certain period of time.

Actually it really looks as though the wings only provide lift and that acceleration provided by the car could not be achieved otherwise and the forward movement could not be achieved therefore making it rather unlikely that the plane would lift off the ground on its own.

Still rather amazing and a very beautiful machine.

you both bring up very valid points. thanks for educating me!

I'm not clear on what benefit it would offer over a glider or microlite. Not that I have anything against quirky projects for their own sake, but since he is a PhD candidate I imagine he must have some applications in mind beyond the aesthetic ones emphasized in the article.

Project information and research links are interesting but not very informative: http://hpo.ornithopter.net/

I'm not sure why you'd expect a PhD candidate to necessarily have a practical application in mind.

The idea of human-powered machines that mimic bird flight has been around since ancient times (recall the myth of Daedalus), and there have been several attempts to actually build one over the last thousand years or so. This appears to be the first ever successful flight of its type. Given the history behind it, it would not be the least bit surprising if this is being done just for its own sake.

Not for the ornithopter itself, I just there'd be technical discussions of airflow over a moving wing or minimum change in the angle of attack required to generate a certain amount of lift...seems like the sort of thing that might be useful to helicopter rotor designers or so.

I bet using a small motor, 1/2hp or so, could do wonders in an ornithopter like this. Humans can't sustain that kind of workload for very long.

That's a beautiful glider. But not human powered, it is car powered with strings attached. If you hear the wind sound, it seems they are using wind to lift too.

History is not made yet.

It looks like it is being pulled by a car?

It looked like it was pulled by a car until it was airborne, then you saw and heard the cord disconnect and the plane continue to fly on its own power as the car with the cameraman drove off at a slight angle.

How is that different from a glider, though? If the power comes from the car, I don't consider it very exciting.

A glider will slowly lose speed x altitude. This plane maintained a steady speed x altitude through flapping.

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